Where Does Nash Rank Among The Greatest PGs Of All Time?

Come on, even Starbury can lead a rookie Amare plus Marion to playoff.

 

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Nash is borderline top 5. Isiah is overrated. I think people forget just how good his supporting cast was. Dumars and Aguirre/Dantley were allstar level, and he had some of the best role players in the league on his team as well - Rodman, Laimbeer, and Vinny Johnson.

Check this out for career True Shooting %
Nash: 0.605
Thomas: 0.516
Hardaway: 0.530
KJ: 0.585
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If you watched basketball in the 80s, you wouldn't let such trash come out of your mouth. Isiah was the guy on those teams, and those teams were beastly, not in the sense the Suns were, who have only competed for division titles and the best record in the West. I mean in the sense of knocking off some great squads, like the Lakers, Bulls, Celtics, and Trailblazers.

I'd put it, like this. If Isiah were not in Detroit, MJ's Bulls would've gotten to the Finals alot sooner than they did.

It's unusual that Nash has 2 MVPs (so does Karl Malone), but Zeke has zero (so does Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, George Gervin, and Rick Barry), while the group of Shaq, Kobe, Olajuwon, and Barkley only have one (the same number as Dirk).

 

Marbury led that roster to a 44-38 record. That's a far cry from 62-20.

 

I'm saying that the numbers themselves shouldn't be the only factor. imo, Nash is more skilled than Stockton. he can do what Stockton did and has other facets to his game. it takes a mixture of chemistry with the coach/players to succeed. put stockton on the suns and i don't think he could do what nash has, but put nash on the jazz and i think he could get the assists.
just my opinion.

 

Nash would get his ass chewed out by Jerry Sloan game after game for playing no defense.

I strongly disagree that Stockton could not duplicate Nash on the Suns. I consider Stockton to be just about as good as Nash on offense, but a very good defender rather than a sieve. He'd be just as great on the Suns. If Nash were playing in the 90's, he wouldn't sniff MVP's either, and he'd even struggle to get on the All NBA Third Team.

 

You have smoked yourself r****ded.

When Nash is the all-time leader in steals, you let me know.

 

Excellent point. I shudder to think what someone like KJ or Isiah could do in the soft ass league today.

 

Johnson, Amare, and Barbosa were extremely young, they just started hitting their stride when Nash got there. He is obviously a great offensive player although he has certainly been surrounded by one of the most talented teams in the NBA since he has been on the Suns. I am saying that being the worst defensive player of his generation stops him from being considered in the top 10

The Mavs record also improved after Nash LEFT the team

 

People overrate Phoenix Suns and their run and gun. There were many great PGs who could orchestrate the offense just as well as Nash in the 80s and 90s. The only classic passing PGs in the league now are Kidd and Nash. I would put Nash in the top 10, definitely not top 5 because his defense is just too lacking.

 

How many of those PGs led their team to these kind of offensive rankings, year after year:

01/02 1st/29
02/03 1st/29
03/04 1st/29
04/05 1st/29
05/06 2nd/30
06/07 1st/30
07/08 2nd/30
08/09 2nd/30
09/10 1st/30

 

I love how people say Nash is overrated because of the system.

Nash IS the system. Every player on the Suns team is overrated BECAUSE OF Steve Nash. He is that good in making the teammates click.

On offense alone, I would rank him in the top 5 all time. Overall, probably around 10th or so. As someone mentioned, he is a late bloomer. So he kind of "wasted" a good part of his younger days not being one of the best. But his performance after 30 is simply amazing. The only PG that I can think of that played at such a high level at this age is Stockton.

 

He's arguably the best offensive PG ever and I retract my statement that there were a lot of PGs in the 80s/90s just as good offensively as Nash. I guess what I meant to say was, there were a lot more well rounded PGs in those days. Due to his defensive deficiencies, I still think he's between position 10-6 in the top PGs of all time list.

 

Nash is not only a good passer like Kidd. Nash is one of the greatest shooters of all time. That's something Kidd can't touch.

Nash's shooting combined with his passing and court vision makes him so difficult to defend. He seldom takes a bad shot because he can always dish to the right guy. And you can't sack on him because he will drain the shot you give him.

If you watch Nash run the offense, he always threatens to drive. You have to step up to him because of his shooting ability. Then he can drive around you and get into the paint. He can stop and shoot, get to the hoop, or if the defense converge, he finds the open teammate. And if you foul him, he is 90%+ at the line.

 

isiah would rack up a ton of fouls the way the league is called now.

 

Here are the PGs I have watched in my lifetime that I consider better than Steve Nash.

Isiah Thomas - One of the most vicious competitors I have seen. Small in size but gigantic at heart. Made clutch plays after clutch plays. Was a great shooter and a finisher. Led the Pistons to two championships.

Kevin Johnson - Lightning quick. Explosive. One of the best penetrator and finisher I have seen. Also excellent at mid range game and setting up his teams on penetration or pick and roll. Co-led the Suns to the finals and carried the team deep in playoffs when Barkley was injured.

Magic Johnson - The best play maker I have seen. Covered at center during his rookie year while wining championships. Mastermind of one of the most potent offense in the history of the game (one which fell to Hakeem and Sampson's Rockets though) and has won multiple championships.

Gary Payton - Class A jerk but probably the most well rounded PG I have seen. In his prime this guy could do it all. 3 point shooting? Check. Mid range game? Check. Penetrator and slasher? Check. Setting up teammates and assists? Check. Help Defense? Check. Man to man defense? Check. As good as this guy was on offense, he was a beast on defense. He could guard players must taller/bigger than him and pretty much covered all of the passing angles anywhere in his vicinity. Also, a tough competitor and trash talking extraordinare. Led his team to the finals against the Bulls.

John Stockton - Absolut ******* on the court. That aside, the second best playmaker I have ever seen. Ball and him were one. Was one of the best I have seen at controlling the tempo and flow of the game. Double digits assists *yawn* .Done. Very low on turnovers. Could also shoot from anywhere and got in the lane at will off of picks. Was also a very good team defender but a dirty flopping one who used his elbows at will. He played the passing lanes well. Led his team to two finals.

These are the ones that I have seen play and those that I would take over Nash. I have not seen players of older generations play so I cannot compare Nash to them.

 

Kevin Johnson was a really nice player but he was not on the level of Steve Nash in terms of skill. Sure he was more athletic but that doesn't count for everything. For one, he wasn't close to being the same shooter that Steve Nash is, as evidenced by his barely 30% career 3-point percentage. In fast, he wasn't usually even at 30%. Someone else mentioned that Nash is the system, and that's absolutely true. What has D'antoni done in New York? I thought so. Were Marion or Q. Richardson the same players after they left? Check again, and besides that, it's not like he had this all-world talent around him, just good offensive players and he's done it with multiple players. If you said that he couldn't do it with Shaq, I'd have to give you that but I'm not sure that many players can, at least not of the high assist type. In fact, I'm going to go to a Phoenix board to ask them just this question, I'll trust their judgment more than someone overtaken with nostalgia. My point 3-point percentages is that Nash is a threat from anywhere on the floor, much like Stockton, while Kevin Johnson wasn't that to the same extent. I did see Kevin Johnson play, and I know that he was vastly underrated, but that doesn't mean that he should suddenly be overrated.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/kevjohnson_stats.html

 

chill the hell out buddy. i'm sorry to have stepped on your very large toes.

i meant IMO offensively nash outclasses stockton. it's a fact that nash plays very little to no D. and stockton was very good at controlling the game but you play pick and roll with someone like Malone for your entire career and you will have some very good numbers. and when did Stockton win that MVP award? oh yeah... never. unless you count the year the all-star game was in Utah and Stockton and...(you guessed it!!)Malone got co-MVPs for the All-Star game. Nash got league MVP twice.

i don't care if you say that the league is soft these days in comparison. That's like saying the rockets championships mean nothing because MJ wasn't there. he got those MVPs regardless and his teams have consistently finished with a stellar record.

 

I can't believe how under-appreciated Nash is on this board. If you really watch Suns' games, you know the offense Nash orchestrates there is a thing of beauty. His passing skill is an art and his shooting percentage is off-the-charts. Arguably one of the greatest PGs ever and definitely one of the most entertaining players of all time!

 

I think nash is between 7-12 all-time.
he makes his teammates better, he is a true PG.
he can score, pass and run the court, even at his age, this season can still run and lead the suns team.

I agree that Isiah is better than Nash, but also I agree that Isiah played with better players.
I rather have Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, Laimbeer than Amare, Marion, Barbosa a Shaq not in his prime, Hill in the end of his career.

 

I honestly do not understand how someone can argue with a straight face that Stockton's numbers are inflated, yet Nash's are not. Nash plays with standout finishers (Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Shaq) and standout shooters (Barbosa, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson, etc.) and is allowed to play in an offensive system where quick shots in transition are not only encouraged but almost required, and other offensive possessions all involve Nash running a pick and roll or drive and kicking.

He literally has everything set up for him to put up huge numbers in Phoenix. In Dallas, where Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, etc. took touches away from him, his numbers were merely good. Put him on some of the old Jazz teams, and his numbers will plunge as the pace is much slower, Jerry Sloan calls every play from the bench (Nash hates this), and where Sloan will probably cut his minutes because he plays no defense.

If we're going to compare across eras, one can't take awards out of context. I think it is absolutely relevant that Nash would have trouble making the All NBA Third Team in the 1990's and wouldn't even sniff an MVP.