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[Astros] - a rare decent article from the Writer of Wrongs

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by msn, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. msn

    msn Member

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    dig it: Dick Justice wrote a decent (not excellent, mind you, but decent) article. still has that magnanimous smug tone that makes you want to punch him in his pompous little pie-hole, and of course he's said the opposite of several of these points over the last year and is sure to turn over the same tired leaf here in a week or so, but a decent article nonetheless.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/6954530.html
     
  2. spence99

    spence99 Member

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    The Astros haven't done anything different this year - they gave big checks to Lyons, Feliz, and Moehler. I guess they're not long term, but still a heck of a lot of money to spend when your not going to contend.
     
  3. Mattj

    Mattj Member

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    Except BL was signed to a Kaz like 3 year deal.
     
  4. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    I stopped reading once I read this gem...

     
  5. DoitDickau

    DoitDickau Member

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    Wish I could share in the optimism. I have zero confidence in Wade. With all the smart progressive morey-like baseball GMs out there, it's disheartening that my favorite team is employing someone like Ed Wade in 2010. The farm system is improving but it's still among the worst in the game and even the top prospects project to be more like above average role players than stars.

    Further, while we may have a good (great?) scouting director in place there really isn't any evidence that the team is allocating the proper resources into drafting and development. Medium to small market teams like the Pirates, Twins, Reds, and A's have all been very active in the last few offseasons with the big time international free agents. Maybe signing a Ynoa or a Sano to 6-8 million, or a Chapman to 30 million, was overpaying or a mistake. But, given the state of the organization that's where the astros should be taking on risk (or even making their mistakes). As least there is upside to those signing unlike Lyons or Feliz.

    Ed Wade got the job because told Mclane that he could keep the big league club competitive while rebuilding the farm. How's that working out? Houston was one of the lowest spending teams in the draft last year. Does the FO have a plan? What direction are we going in?
     
  6. Blake

    Blake Member

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    I don't know if Wade is completely to blame, I think Drayton has a lot of say in what goes on and, despite good intentions, the man just doesn't understand that you should just tear it down and rebuild. The band-aids just do not work.

    I would have traded Berkman (if he wanted it) and Roy last season or in the offseason for prospects. Those guys don't have enough years left in their respective careers to still be effective when we finally turn this thing around
     
  7. msn

    msn Member

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    haha! I don't mean to commend the article as entirely factual or realistic! But he makes some good points about the direction the Astros are trying to take, Dickau's good counterpoints notwithstanding.
     
  8. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    Sounds to me like Justice wants to make sure his press pass gets renewed this year by writing a feel good column about the 0-6 Astros. Personally I think this team is destined to suck with their inability to hit the ball. Hell, their only run yesterday came off a double play, in true Astros manner.
     
  9. msn

    msn Member

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    could be!

    I don't think anyone really expects the Astros to do much better than 75-81 wins this year. I'm *hoping* for 81 or 82 wins, but I'm expecting more like 75.
     
  10. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    I think the key comment is
    Its like saying all these outwardly bad happenings should lead to the kind of better decision making the organization needs to have going forward.

    Whether it blows up directly from the organization's own doing or its blowing up on its own, there needs to be a blow-up after several straight years of mediocrity for the alarm to finally sound.

    Its a bit of results speak for themselves "we TOLD you so, now follow our advice". I think.
     
  11. Kerfeld

    Kerfeld Member

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    This team and organization will go nowhere with Ed Wade as the GM. It was a mistake to hire him. Sure he has drafted well, but still only time will tell on the 2008 and 2009 drafts. In all of his years in baseball, Ed Wade has NEVER been in the postseason. NEVER. That should tell you something.
     
  12. T-Slack

    T-Slack Member

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    I rather the Stros, if you are gonna lose, lose big and tank, trade your core players for prospect and start over. But we know McClain won't do that. He's too stubborn.
     
  13. Refman

    Refman Member

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    It should also tell you something that the Phillies team that he largely put together has had seven consecutive winning seasons...SEVEN. It was the team that he put together that won the World Series. To give his successor credit for that would be like giving Purpura credit for the Astros' 2005 NL pennant...it's absurd.
     
  14. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Except that most of our "core" players have no trade clauses that make them...you know...impossible to trade.

    If the team had a deal in place to send Berkman and Oswalt to the Twins for their entire farm system...if Berkman or Oswalt decide they don't want to go to Minnesota, no amount of wishing will make the deal actually materialize.
     
  15. DoitDickau

    DoitDickau Member

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    Or it would be like giving credit to Drayton Mclane for a 90's winning run that was built on players from John McMullen's regime.

    The majority of starters from the Phillies starting lineup in the 2009 world series starting lineup were acquired by the current management.
     
  16. msn

    msn Member

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    *Two* players. The rest of that entire thing was engineered by folks McLane hired. This statement is way out in left field.

    Maybe so (haven't checked), but the GM of the Phillies at the time even credited Wade.
     
  17. DoitDickau

    DoitDickau Member

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    First, that ignores the contributions of guys like Shane Reynolds, Kile, Harnisch, Cammy, and Finley, etc to the Astros 1992-99 run of .500+ baseball.

    but more to the point, you dismiss that analogy because McMullen was responsible for only "two players", but guess what? Wade only acquired two star players (Utely and Howard) that contributed to the philly world series run (I'd entertain an argument that Hammels is a star, but i'd argue he's more in the Darryl Kile class of stars than the Bagwell, Biggio, Howard, Utely class). Lee, Rollins, Lidge, Halladay, the entire 2009 outfield, etc were acquired by other Philly GM's.

    So if Wade gets credit for basically drafting two star players that would later anchor a winning team surrounded by non-wade acquired talent, then why wouldn't McMullen get credit for basically the same thing?

    Anyone want to argue that McMullen would be a good owner because he built the foundation Astros 8 year run of 500+ records? I sure wouldn't
     
  18. msn

    msn Member

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    Cammy, Kile, and Finley weren't around for the best years.

    Secondly, we're talking fifteen years versus however long Wade was in Philly. Apples and oranges.

    Finally, someone had to keep those guys around and build teams around them that didn't suck hard. The Astros had stars in the 80s, too, and managed to finish below .500 or way out of the race more often than not. Bring in McLane's two best hires: Watson and Hunsicker, and they're in the hunt to the bitter end or in the playoffs every year except once from 1994-2005.

    Nice try, though.
     
  19. rockets934life

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    Just would like to point out Wade was the assistant GM when they drafted Rollins and GM when he hired, and fired, Terry Francona and Charlie Manuel...thats all.
     
    #19 rockets934life, Apr 13, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  20. DoitDickau

    DoitDickau Member

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    The basic point I want to make is, yes, Wade deserves credit for drafting Utely, Howard, Hammel, and a small core that would anchor the current team. How much credit, I think, is an open question. Certainly some part of that goes to the scouting department and just the plain luck that goes into the drafting and development of any prospect. He certainly deserves credit that he headed an organization that drafted those handful of players, but that in it of it self doesn't mean he's a good GM, nor does such a small sample of drafting indicate future success in that realm. Moreover, any credit he gets for drafting Utely and Howard needs to be viewed in conjunction with other moves he made as GM such as the big contracts to David Bell and Mike Lieberthal, trading Curt Schilling for Omar Daal, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla, and his strange fetish for allocating resources to middle relievers.
     
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