[Poll] They Say You Want A Revolution

I'm getting really sick of people comparing Bush anger (controversial election, unconstitutional war) to Obama anger (stimulus, HRC).

The causes for anger at Bush were far more justified imo and the response was far less severe in relation to the cause when compared to Obama anger.

Apples, oranges, etc.

 

id like to write in an option for "i dont consider myself beholden to any movement or party and i was of the opinion that george w. bush and several members of his administration should have been arrested and put on trial for war crimes and violations to the constitution. i did not advocate violence against these people, rather i wanted them put on trial and if found guilty by a jury of fellow citizens, held accountable for their crimes."

 

Correction, Obama has taken over the financial sector, the auto industry, and now health care. There has never been a President in history to expand government as much and as quickly as him. People are scared. That being said, I feel quite sure he sealed his fate as a lame duck with the severe defiance of the American people on the crappy health care bill he crammed down our throats. By November, 2012 the Liberals be will sent off into the sunset and it all starts this November.

 

Out of curiosity, who are the Repubs going to run against Obama in 2012?

 

Rick Santorum! Rick, Rick, he's our man, if he can't... be a frothy mix, no one can!

 

Bush handed over TARP to Obama. Nobody thought those loans the Bush Admin made to the auto industry were going to be paid back. He didn't deny punting the issue. I guess a different President wouldn't have "taken over the auto industry" and let it be liquidated. I'm glad it didn't. As for healthcare, it's been discussed ad nauseum and I'm sure you understood all of it.

They're scared because they listen and believe to nutjob rightwing radio personalities with simple angry stories about the boogeyman around the corner.

If that's your heavy hitters for the conservative banner, then you better load up John Wayne movies for those "riding off into the sunset" endings you've been wishing for.

 

Oh Rly? The Big O is hitting his second year. If he manages 8 years with his HCR, then you're right, lets talk apples to apples.

In the mean time, lets compare apples to apples.

How willing was congress and the people ready to go blow up some dark skinned people? If I recall, it didn't take months with shady backroom deals with begging and coercing with promises of future rewards or threats from your own party. Everyone was pretty much on the same page.

Now Health Care Reform ... something that will be here forever and yet, they couldn't even get half of America to buy into it much less their own party majority.

Interesting enough, how many Liberals complained that Bush lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote. They were all up in arms because democracy was broke, regardless of the law in which a president is elected. Where are these same people now speaking about health care reform? Is the popular vote system no longer broke?

 

Actually they could - it's called representative democracy, you should look into it when you get your GED someday.

 

Wow, a liberal being condescending and insulting online. What a shock.

 

It's apples and oranges to you (and to me actually) but as cml750's post makes clear the people angry at Obama have a different view of it than we do. And really what's important is not how you or I view both issues, it's how they view Obama versus how those angry at Bush viewed him.

The movement of this country towards socialism and the usurpation of individual liberty and freedom are very serious issues to many people. And to them they are worth getting angry about. So while you might be sick of it because it's based on misconceptions and irrational fear, that doesn't mean it's so different that it cannot be compared.

 

Classic Space Ghost revisionist history.

Bush coerced Congress into the war by intentionally misleading the public into believing Iraq had a role in 9/11 and by fear mongering Congress prior to an election. He never sought or got a declaration of war. He got the authority to use force under the condition he would follow through with the United Nations which he blew off after the rest of the world wouldn't buy his BS.

A President is elected by the electoral college which is determined by each STATE. You know, STATES RIGHTS and all that jazz that you wingnuts b**** about all the time. The same states rights that your wingnut Supreme Court violated in overruling the Florida Supreme Court and then claimed it didn't count as a precedent, etch a sketch style. I mean hell why have an election if you're not going to count all the votes, hmm?

 

Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, GWB... all expanded government at or near the same pace. Folks sure like to forget Bush and that whole Patriot Act which took away more civil liberties and expanded government power far beyond anything Barry has done...

 

Sorry, but how much patience do you expect people to have?

When you're dealing with people who quite frankly just either 1) aren't very bright, or 2) are deliberately being ignorant - it's simply very difficult for anybody to waste time patiently explaining things.

For example, tabling the fact that we are not a direct democracy, guys like Nate Silver who are pros at this have spent a lot of time explaining why the polls on the HCR bill are frequently misleading (not to mention the fact that the pollls now show majority or plurality support for it).

Complicated explanations like this are lost on the stupid and the disingenuous however, which is what most cons have proved to be on this issue.

Many republicans themselves (Douthat, Brooks, Frum etc) have embarrasedly and belatedly acknowledged this. But anyway, we're not dealing with them here. We're dealing with assclowns like Space Ghost and basso.

Space Ghost I'm really trying to figure out. He exhibits the reasoning of a non HS graduate, so he may in fact just be playing us all for fools (see, e.g., OddsOn).

 

Republicans like Palin and Beck have unleashed a very dangerous genie. By calling for "revolution" and encouraging the use of incendiary language invoking guns and violence - they have escalated people's frustration to a level that could result in terrorist acts or violence.

This is a dangerous age...if the gov't starts arresting Tea Party advocates it may escalate the situation and lead to more violence.

 

Or perhaps they have a completely different perspective from you that you are having trouble understanding. Either way, the condescension and insults is not terribly attractive and certainly nothing to be proud of.

 

I'm sorry, but when people don't say anything when they're side creates the Patriot Act, which actually does intrude on peoples' individual freedoms, and starts a war for reasons, well for reasons that are still uncertain to this day and then scream bloody murder when the other side creates bills like the stimulus and health care reform, that actually help the country, then those criticisms ring hollow. You can say they are entitled to that opinion, but it is still irrational, whether they are entitled to it or not.

Like I have heard many times before, just because you have freedom of speech, it doesn't mean you should use it.

 

Yes, it might be different.

HOwever different does not mean of equal intellectual value.

All opinions just aren't equally valid in that sense, particularly those formed by people that are extreme misapprehension, whether deliberate or not, of the relevant facts, or extremely irrational and illogical opinions. And yes, there are indeed facts here, and there definitely is a baseline of rationality and logic. Sorry, but we have evolved up to that phase where failure to be cognizant of such should simply not be tolerated.

And as for you not thinking it's attractive to admit the obvious - I can't even think of a suitable metaphor regarding the level of indifference so I'm just going to end by saying:

cool story bro

 

This thread is why I quit my job a month ago to work on a political campaign.