What if MJ never retired and the Rockets Played them in 94 and 95?

Good numbers, yes. What is expected out of someone who 95+% of the basketball world considers to be the greatest player of all time? An emphatic no. An 8.4% FG shooting difference is not "a bit". It can be the difference between a 38% shooter and a 46.4% shooter. Before you said he was not rusty, but now after I proved that to be ridiculous, it's so what? BTW, I never said the Bulls with Jordan would beat our Rockets, read my post...I hate these if's, would have's, etc.

The Cat, Jordan did not have an offseason whatsoever. Are you really trying to tell me that Jordan was not rusty? It is not humanly possible to take 1 and 3/4 years off a sport to concentrate on another sport and come back and be able to play the sport at the highest level in the world. I don't care how good of a player you were before, if you're human, rust will set in. As ZRB said, Jordan still came back and put up 27 ppg, but it was clearly not the Jordan of old. You need some sort of offseason training with NBA caliber competition as well, which Jordan did not have. Look what he did the season after he had an offseason for training...that proves it right there.

About the Rodman thing...yes, he was a huge acquisition for the Bulls, but are you actually trying to say Dennis Rodman was THE REASON why the Bulls went from getting beaten by the Magic 4 games to 2, to sweeping the Magic the very next season while winning 72 games, and that Michael Jordan being back to his old self had no effect or minimal effects if at all?

Note: I'm going to be in LA the next several days, so this will be my last post for a while.

 

Heres a little NBA history for you Texas G.

Clyde the Glyde led his previous team the Portland Trailblazers to two NBA Finals appearances;and one appearance he matched up well against Jordan. In fact Drexler out played Jordan 3 out of 6 games; so before you even think about making a comment such as Jordan would of had an easily advantage over Drexler as much as Hakeem would have over Purdue; just back away from the screen.

What team in the NBA do you think Perdue could of led to the NBA Finals then, now, in his prime, when ever?


Stop deluding your self.

 

The 1995 team was awesome. It was simply in the cards, no team would have beat them.

 

The Rockets-Bulls match up is close to call but I think the Rockets would have edged them out for these reasons:


1. Hakeem vs any Bulls center would have been as lopsided as Shaq vs MacCullough.

2. Drexler would not have been as outmatched against Jordan as people think. He also would have made Jordan work very hard on D and besides what other SG would you rather have that year than Drexler in his prime guarding Jordan?

3. Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell were better than any pg the bulls had.

4. Robert Horry is a big game player. He also would've matched up very well with Pippen

5. Mario Elie was a very good role player who would do anything for the team.

The matchups are very intriguing but I think we had the players to get the job done.

 

Actually, those stats by LilStevie are extremely deceiving.

Jordan's playoff stats from 95 (the year according to his idol worshippers where he was "rusty) are actually BETTER in just about every category than his playoff stats from 96-98.

The thing many forget is that without Rodman, the Bulls had no interior presence.

One of the funniest things on this thread is the moronic comment that Jordan-Drexler is a bigger mismatch than Olajuwon-Perdue. That's just laughable. Hakeem in 94-95 was at Jordan's level. Ask David Robinson, who was about 1000X times the center perdue was and got destroyed and gave up 40 ppg.

Name a team that the Bulls beat in the Finals who was better than the 94-95 rockets? It's not like the Bulls ever rolled over teams. Most of their series went 6 games. Hell, if Karl Malone could ever hit a clutch FT or clutch shot, Bulls would have lost at least one of those series.

It's funny how the Jordan idol worshippers who believe him to basically be God always talk about how Jordan would have won 8 series if he didnt retire and never talk about the flipside:

What if Jordan's Bulls had actually run into a team with a DOMINANT big (read not a good, but not great center like ewing, zo, mutombo) like Olajuwon or Shaq (who incidentally have all but one of the non Jordan titles in the past decade)? IMO, that had more to do with the Bulls losing in 95 than this complete BS about "Jordan was rusty."

In any case, supposing the Rockets had beaten the Bulls in 94 and 95. The media would have nevertheless found some excuse and still called the Rockets titles flukes, just like they called Orlando's win over Chicago a fluke. Perhaps the reason would have been that Jordan "just wasn't into the games due to his father's demise." Notice how the historians record the Rockets 86 4-1 WCF win over LA as one of the biggest flukes ever. Simply put, when the media and "follow the leader" type fans idolize and deify a team or player so much, they will always find a way to make excuses when that player loses. Would the Kings have actually gotten credit for beating LA this year if they had pulled it out? No, we'd be hearing how "they'd have never won if shaq's toe was 100%" or something to that effect.

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/jordan/career/playoffstats.html

PPG FG% RPG
94-95 31.5 .484 6.5
95-96 30.7 .459 4.9
96-97 31.1 .456 7.9


Rust in 95? Try again. No Rodman, no chance.

 

Let me be the first to say Jordan was the most amazing players in the history of the game.

But, for everyone else who watched Hakeem during the championship years, don't you think Hakeem was just as dominant at the C position as Jordan was at the 2?

Is it me or do I remember Hakeem smiling to reports that Robinson had won MVP, then HANDED D-Rob his ASS in the series? Do I remember Shaq saying "Hakeem dusted my butt".

Can anyone honestly say MJ would get to 40 points easier than Hakeem would get to 40 points in a Bulls-Rockets series?

Think about it:

Hakeem vs. Perdue/anyone they had

Jordan vs. Mad Max/Drexler


I can't begin to explain how much Hakeem would pick the Bulls into pieces. I'll go ahead and say it. Forget the fact that the Rockets would take the series, Hakeem would outshine MJ, and win the Finals MVP. He'd go into the Hall of Fame as the guy who stopped MJ at full strength (credit to the guy who said it first).

 

I totally agree. I really think a lot of people are failing to realize how huge the Rodman acquisition was for the Bulls. Bottom line, if they don't get Rodman in 96, they don't win any more championships, period. They NEEDED that interior presence because Horace Grant's leaving was a very big reason why they got knocked out by Orlando the year before. Jordan might have been "rusty" but he was still plenty good enough to carry a team to the finals if they'd had all their positions covered.

Heh, didn't the Bulls win their first championship when the Lakers were dealing with injuries? Or am I getting mixed up with the Pistons again?

 

I have to say that this thread has caused me to think a little more seriously than I have in the past about this hypothetical.

as a fan, I have always felt that the Rockets would've won. and it would've been extremely sweet to have seen Hakeem recognized as the one guy Jordan couldn't beat [kind of like Russell to Chamberlain].

but the one thing I have considered after reading this thread is that the series would have come down to one basic factor:

Dream vs. Air

everybody talks about who's going to guard Jordan. well, if Dream is defending the paint and swatting Jordan's crap left and right, then it only matters half as much who's guarding Jordan.

conversely [or perhaps nikely, or even etonically], if Jordan was getting the calls [and you have to admit that's a strong likelihood], then the bulls would probably keep driving the hole to get Hakeem in foul trouble.

if Dream is on the bench with fouls, or if he fouls out [heaven forbid], then the Bulls win it in a walk.

so, I'm not saying who'd win [the Rockets would of course win], but I am saying that all this talk has caused me to realize that the whole enchilada would come down to whether Hakeem could stay out of foul trouble or Jordan could get him in foul trouble.

so, as usual in the NBA, the refs would decide.

F dick bavetta!!!

 

Well don't get on me for this one, I AM NOT A MJ OR BULLS FAN,( unlike some people here!).
But I think the Bulls would win.

Not because of MJ, Not Quitten, NOt talent. But as the SAc Kings painfully learned this year, The Refs.

THERE IS NO WAY NBC/ NBA/ AND the Refs would have let Rox have both those championships. May be one. Not both.

Talk to the kings, or even better The Jazz (oh, hate them the most) Brian Russell.

Here are couple of things to ad to the argument
1. jordan said himself in 93, onone guarded him better then MAd Max
2. Pippen after he betrayed houston, told ESPN the reason he picked HOUSTON was because they constantly kicked the bulls butts when he was there
3. as for Clyde; after retirement he was asked who was better him or MJ. He aswered I do not Know I never got to have a FAIR game against them, cuase everytime i played him close i ended up in early foul trouble ( ask me he was head and shoulder better then MJ. Thats rockets bias)

Now the attacks begin........

 

If we only had game 7 against Seattle in the 93-94 Conference semis.

Would've, could've, should've...That's like the story of my life.

 

If if if if if...

If the officials had called Malone's bear-hugging of Clyde Drexler that allowed Stockton to get that wide open three to beat the Rockets in Game 6, we'd have seen the three-headed monsters collide in the Finals.

Let's say...

Barkley- 18 ppg, 12 rpg
Rodman- 6, 14

Drexler- 18, 6
Pippen- 20, 8

Olajuwon- 30, 10
Jordan- 30, 5

So...

Rockets 3: 66, 28
Bulls 3: 56, 27

I think this settles the matter.

 

.HOUSTON WOULD OF LOST TO BULLS

 

I think that the Bulls would have won in 1994 if Jordan had played.

1) That year the Bulls took the Knicks to 7 games without Jordan. I doubt that the Rockets could have done the same without Olajuwon.

2) That year:

ppg rpg fg%
Ewing: 24.5 11.2 .496
Olajuwon: 27.3 11.9 .528

I don't think that Olajuwon would have had that much more of an impact against the Bulls than Ewing.

 

The Bulls did run into Shaq in '96 and swept his Magic. I think people underestimate how good Ewing was in his prime...he was nowhere near Dream, but he was a hell of a center. His recent futility has made people underestimate how good he actually was...something that also occurs frequently now with Dream and Robinson. BTW, I did acknowledge how big Rodman's acquisition was to the Bulls. Nothing else to add though...don't want to comment on who would win; happy that we have our two titles.

 

Well during the bulls championship years with Jordan, I believe the Rockets had a winning record. In '95 with Jordan putting up some of his best playoff numbers(Thanks for the stats) the Bulls were ousted by the Magic, and the Rockets won.

In '94 it would have been a toss up. In '95 Jordan was there, and the Rockets had their second ring. Even if Jordan was there all season the Rockets would have had their second ring.

Maxwell always played Jordan well, and even frustrated him to the point where I remember Jordan getting angry and shoving our mad max, in one game.

I think Jordan fans and Bulls fans do themselves a disservice by trying to make excuses for the '95 season.

Rockets fans could say without all the injuries last year the Rockets would have made the playoffs, and maybe beaten the Lakers. But you can only play with the hand your dealt. Accepting it with dignity seems better to me..

 

The fact is
The Bulls are being labeled as a greatest team ever, and the Rockets are a two-title team ... something like Rochester Royals or Golden State Warriors. 50 years later they would be remebrered just like those two teams.
The Rockets had Olajuwon, but Chicago went over Ewing and the Knicks so many times, over Shaq who was already a 2nd scorer in NBA, and among top 5 rebounders, surounded with a great team, over Mourning with Charlotte and Miami, over Mutombo and Atlanta ...
You know, what western conference is now, with centers and height I mean, that was eastern conference 5-or-6 years ago.
Longley sucked pretty bad, but let me remind you, he was 7-2 and had a constant average of 12 ppg with the Bulls over the years. As I remeber that was better than Horry's, Cassell's, Elli's and many others on that team of yours.
Also, I can remember that the Bulls won their titles with around 15-20 loses in the season, and the Rockets won theirs with 35-40 loses.

Don't get me wrong, Rockets won their two and that is history, but no one should even put them with the Bulls in the same sentence.

It's true that no one knows what would have happened, but I'm sure I'm far more closer to the truth.

Jordan is the basketball god for this planet, and I'm asking you what did Olajuwon better in his career, than Pippen did with his?

 

3. as for Clyde; after retirement he was asked who was better him or MJ.




I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

Not once did Luc Longley put up 12 ppg.

Sam Cassell and Robert Horry have...And Mario Elie came closer to doing it than Luc Longley did.(All for the Rockets)

Luc Longley matches up much better against the Pat Ewing and Shaquille O'neal types, anyway. Longley also never averaged 6 rpg.

There is no way to determine a winner by simply analyzing the teams and imagining how you think the games would play out. It would be a close series(At least 6 games, no doubt), but there is no way to find out who would have won.

 

I don't disagree with your ultimate premise that the bulls dynasty is on another level than the rockets, but your argument is completely f-d up:

1. The East has sucked worse than the West for years as far as depth. If you won 50 or more games in the Eastern Conference you got homecourt in the first round. In the West, that often only got you the 5 or 6th seed. Find me one year in the nineties where the East had more 50 win teams than the west. Find me the last year the East had a higher winning % than the West.

2. Yes, Jordan faced Ewing and O'Neal in the playoffs, and he LOST to O'Neal once, and almost lost to Ewing once. And Olajuwon faced them both and beat them both, and was BETTER than both of them were. As for Mourning and Mutumbo, give me a break, the Heat always lost to the knicks anyway, and the Hawks with Mutumbo were never a threat, so get the hell out of here. That's like saying "The rockets played penny hardaway and dan majerle so they could handle jordan easy", in other words, stupid.

3. Luc Longley. HE was 7-2? Big f-ng deal. So were Danny Schayes and Joe Klein and Felton Spencer. I don't understand what the point of comparing him to Sam Cassell is, other than that Cassell is/was an all star quality player and is a hundred times better. Same goes for Horry and Elie, who werre better on playoff performances alone. Name one big shot in the playoffs Luc Longley ever hit. Hell, name a shot where he was ever guarded that he hit in the finals.

4. The Bulls were 72-10 one year and were playing from the road by the end of the playoffs, so I guess that makes Utah better. Who cares if the rockets lost some games with Otis Thorpe and Vernon Maxwell playing in December of 1994?

5. If you are trying to say what has Olajuwon done that Pippen hasn't, uh, maybe he won MVP award, 2 finals MVPs, scored more points, gotten more rebounds, set the shotblocking record, led his team to a title without michael jordan, not refused to come on the court in the last minute of a playoff game, and a few more things I'm too tired to bother listing.