Steve Francis just proved he is NOT a franchise player

Yes, let's all hope that Rudy and CD are making Rockets personnel decisions based on video game ratings. <g>

 

Well let me give my opinion on this, although its not worth much:
Lay off the guy!

I saw the interview Friday since I was in Houston. I didn't think much of it. In fact, I thought I knew the same before it as after.
Next thing you know Francis will say that he doesn't like drinking Dasani (SP?) water, but since he is going against a sponser of the Rocket's he is selfish. This guy is planning out almost his whole career. Like someone posted earlier, wouldn't you take some time to consider an option like this? As for him not being franchise player, what does it take? Francis leads his team in a lot of stats, and always gives it his all. I'll admit he does seem a bit "talkative" but he is young. A lot of players may say the same too, but we don't get the Orlando News to hear about it. (I'm not saying T-Mac says bad things, only an example.) Have any of you heard ESPN saying Francis doesn't want Ming? I would imagine it would get mentioned sometime.

However I don't personally know Francis personally. He may be a butt and selfish. But give him some time.

 

Last year the rockets had big injuries on the court with mo and steve,s problems

Steve problem is he is young and inmuture this he will grow out of it in time

This year they will be in playoffs with Eddie ,Yao,Steve,Bostjan and Cat being the reasons why...toss in alot of Mo and we will be the talk of the basketBaLL WORLD


Winning will stop alot of crying and whinning


I am just glad Steve is not the man to pick our players for the team BUT I am glad he is the 1 that runs it on the floor

 

MJ did complain or question the team when they weren't winning. Shaq actually left his team(Orlando) for another team.

But that doesn't really matter, since Steve hasn't asked for a trade, or really even questioned the organization. The guy wants to win, and he's been losing. He said he doesn't like losing and wants to win. Where's the controversey?

Whoever said this whole thread is much Ado over nothing is totally right. This is the most ludicrous thread I've seen in all the time I've been lurking and posting on the BBS. I'm not placing all the blame on Axeman either, since some of the other posts after him were more ridiculous.

Actually Cat, and almost every other player on the court benefits from Stevie being on the court with them. Eddie wouldn't get open looks at the basket if teams didn't have to double up on Steve. Same goes with Cat, and everyone else

 

Let's all get one thing straight. Steve hasn't said negative things about Ming. At first he said Ming was unknown. Then later, and more recently Steve has only praised Ming.

HeyP isn't the only person talking about this, but I'm just using his quote as an example. Probably a third of the quotes on this post are about Steve vs. Ming.

I think if we can remove that myth and rumors about what Steve said and look at real official Steve quotes and interviews, we find that Steve is on board with Yao Ming.

As for the problem of the Rockets started losing when Steve came to the team, it's true, but not Steve's fault. Once the veterans we had were past their prime. It was bound to happen.

Just a few actual facts about Steve:

1.There are no quotes of him slamming Ming. There are quotes of him praising Ming

2.Steve hasn't demanded to be traded.

3.Steve has taken care of injuries, Migraines the Mayo clinic etc. exactly like he said he was, and did it all during the off season so that he'll be ready to go by the time the season says.

4.Steve hasn't done 180 since saying he wanted to sign with the team. A 180 would mean that he's now saying he doesn't want to sign with the team. The team is in negotiations, and like any smart person would, Steve's looking at his options. Steve hasn't said anything about wanting to leave, all he's doing is negotiating.

All this other stuff people are writing about Steve, is their own opions and inference. If we looked at just the facts that we know about Steve, he hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Exactly.

Francis hasn't said word one about not wanting to be here, he's just checking everything out before he signs, what smart guy wouldn't?

I'm going to assume that you and topfive know that Miller was traded to LA . I hope you also know that Miller wanted the MAX or he was walking and thats why he was traded. Would you want TMac who called out the rest of his teammates by saying he was better than Baron Davis and that the only reason the Hornets were gonna win the series is b/c TMac has "nothing" to work with on his team. Oh and he said that in the middle of the palyoff series. What about BD? He wanted to leave the Hornets so badly that he was publicly lobbying to for a trade to the Clips, Knicks, or Bulls. KG called his teammates and the rest of the orginization "mutherf****s" who aren't doing their jobs. Is that something you want? And don't forget Shaq & Kobe who hated eachother so much at one point (during the season they won their 1st championship) they both asked to be traded from the team a week apart.

Francis hasn't done anything remotely close to any of these guys and yet he is getting crucified for having some questions and wanting to have some say in the teams future direction. What star player doesn't want/get those types of considerations from their teams?

 

Personally, I dont place too much store in players that have not won championships before at other levels. Francis has never won anywhere. Name me the last leader of a team that won a Championship that didn't win (or at least get close, read: final 4 or finals) at other levels (high school or college.)

 

"And we already know where Francis' ceiling is... and it's quite high. But he's not a Shaq, Kobe, McGrady, Duncan, or Pierce."

I disagree. Francis is definitely on the same level as Kobe, McGrady and Pierce. Maybe not Shaq and Duncan, but definitely the other three.

When you average 21-6-7 in only your third year, I'd say you're definitely in that elite group.

Would you say that Gary Payton, in his prime (although he is still playing as well as he ever has) was not on the level as McGrady, Pierce, or Kobe? I'd say he most certainly was playing at that level. I see Francis eventually exceeding Gary's ceiling, which was pretty high.

The statistics are already very similar. Defense is the only thing separating them. That will come with time.

 

That is completely true. Compared to other franchise players, Francis has done or said anything out of context.

 

First of all I am disappointed in how some people are talking bad about the Rockets BEST PLAYER. I do not think Steve was talking negatively about the Rockets organization. He was just stating how he is tired of losing. I believe he just wants to win and I think we all want to win! I do not understand what is the problem with Steve voicing how he feels. When the old Rockets team was playing and winning they made it known that they wanted to win PERIOD! Steve wants that same thing, and the Rockets as a team needs to want to win as well.

 

FranchiseBlade,

You are correct about your #4. It isn't 180 turn. I should have said 90 degree or something like, backpedaling.

I don't agree with your #1. Francis has not praised Ming. If you want to see praising, look at what Rudy, CD and MoT have said. imo, that's an inference of yours to call his comments "praising."

I just want him to come out excited about playing with Ming. He has no other choice in the matter. Period! We are not going to trade Ming.

btw: show me where I'm bashing Steve. That is an "opinion or inference" on your part.

btw btw: Francis has no options to negotiate except contract length and $$. Are you suggesting the Rockets are not offering the max???

 

Steve IS A franchise player, we obviously cant win w/o him, and last year was not his fault at all. But if he REALLY Wants to be in the playoffs he needs to start getting in his teammates faces, and make sure everyone busts thier ass 82 games. I remember half of our games it seemed like they were just playing out the game, and not even trying, thats what needs to change, if we give it 100 percent every night we will win 50 games, i dont think i know, we are loaded with talent and now we are a very deep team. A nd if you diss steve, you arent a rockets fan. its as simple as that

 

Ok, his comments have been positive about Ming. That may not rise to the level of praise, but without having ever Met Ming and done the same amount of research that Rudy and CD have, then it's still a hopefull sign, and it isn't bashing the guy.

Perhaps I'm wrong in saying it's bashing. It might be my opinion. But when someone says that one player is afraid of being outshined by a future draft pick, I think it is bashing.

Francis is about to sign for the majority of his playing career. I think he's just making sure that this is the best situation for him. It's a smart business and personal decision. He's just making sure. I'd rather have the guy sure he's doing the right thing, and then put it out of his mind, and focus on playing the game. I'm not saying the Rockets aren't offering the max.

 

There have been great comments as well as less than intelligent comments thrown out here in this thread. In all fairness to Steve, he is a great player that is being misunderstood. You guys have the right to post critical opinions, but remember that you will be scrutinized the same way Steve Francis is being scrutinized for his statements. Unless your comments are from relevent information backed with facts or substance, then you are merely a slanderer, a gossip monger, a hater, or a complete dumb@$$. And if you don't like that treatment, well than consider the position that you are putting Steve Francis in.

 

I didn't say this either.

btw: he is not a "future draft pick," and a betting man would take that bet that Francis WILL be outshined in the media. You can count on Fran Blinebury picking Yao to praise over Francis.

This is not a contract issue, to me. He'll sign a contract that makes me happy. I'm confident of that. This is a chemistry issue. We are dead without chemistry. This team is built on Chemistry But I want him happy about the team. More happy than he is expressing.

Blade, my opinion is Yao is a stroke of luck. I cannot believe Francis is not as excited as other teammates and coaches are. It is not like you have a choice. David Robinson was thrilled to have Tim Duncan. Sampson was thrilled to get Hakeem. And they each played the same college positions.

This is much more one of your classic set-ups where the PG finally gets a big man to play with that he's never had before, and, yet, he says:

"I have never been able to play with a guy like this before. I'll have to wait and see."

It is not bashing for me to say that I want Francis much more excited than that. I want him as excited as he was when the season ended and was ready to sign a max at anytime.

 

Blade,

Steve has made some mildly positive statements re: Yao in recent weeks. Prior to that he was on camera saying he'd never been able to play with that kind of player. It's known, and reported here, that Steve was unhappy with the pick, and that his opposition softened after seeing more tape.

Let me say one more time, I am not a Steve basher and I don't think this is a big deal.

I think HP's posts say virtually the same thing.

It's a slow news week and it's worth mentioning as HP did that Steve's opinion of management's commitment to improving and winning did indeed change after we selected Yao, and there seems to be no other reason for the change of heart. That's all HP was saying. That and the fact that there is nothing left to negotiate.

We know that Steve's iffy on Yao. I think that will go away. If it doesn't, I will have a problem with him. As of now, I'm as high as ever on him and hope we sign him to max dollars and max years.

 

HeyP-

You didn't use the exact words I used about Stevie being afraid he'd be outshined. I posted your quote which I think states the same message in some different words. If I didn't translate the same meaning you intended then I'm sorry.

I think Francis is lucky to have Ming on his team, the most recent talk from Francis doesn't say he's angry about Ming or anything like that.

Francis wants to win. He's been losing. He's about to commite the prime of his playing career. To take a careful look at the situation shows wisdom and maturity.

Let's remember Drexler was a proven NBA star when he came to the Rockets in '95. Even still Horry and some other Rockets weren't happy with the trade. I can't remember the exact quote from Horry, but it was something definitely negative like 'The trade stinks.' After playing with Drexler, Horry and the others changed their tune.

Even if some people aren't 100% sure about Ming, it's understandable(Though no one is on record as saying this at all. That includes Steve Francis). Give them time to play with him. I hope he assuages the fears of any who aren't enthusiastic enough already.

Remember that according to CD, I think, it was Francis who got excited after watching Ming's tape and called Mobely and told him to watch it. That along with Francis' comments that have been recorded don't give too much cause to be worried about.

I haven't seen any proof from Steve that he isn't a Franchise player.

 

Yes I remember all the stuff posted here about Steve being unhappy with the pick. Most of it was just rumor and opinion. Even if he was initially unhappy, it isn't the world doesn't mean that he can't or couldn't change his mind. In fact it shows maturity that he had seen the tape and had more information before commenting publically. Looking at Francis' documented interviews he hasn't bashed Ming at all.

I don't know why the extension isn't already signed, and yes chronologically speaking Ming was drafted before negotiations. It doesn't mean that there is a cause and effect situation with the draft and negotiations.

Again there could be or there could not be. None of us really know. For people to claim anything about Steve Francis based on this stuff is pre-mature. That's all I'm saying.

I'll admit right now that Steve may be thinking about the extension because of Ming, but nobody knows this one or the other for sure except for Steve, and Steve hasn't said anything publically to indidcate this.

I just don't think it's fair for people to accuse Steve of being Selfish, not a Franchise player, or insuating that he's a spotlight hog and that's why he's upset about Ming or Griffin or any stuff like that about him. At this point nobody knows.

If it turns out that Steve doesn't sign the extension because of Ming or draft picks or whatever, then I wouldn't have a problem with this kind of thread. But right now there's no indication that negotiations have broken off, of Steve issuing threats etc.

In the past people have posted rumors about Steve not liking Ming and issuing threats then Steve comes out and says positive things about Ming. People have said Steve doesn't really care, because he isn't taking care of himself and going to the Mayo clinic etc. Well Steve has once again proved his detractors wrong.

I think waiting for the facts to come out before calling people immature, selfish, not team oriented etc. is wise. I don't mean to just pick out HeyPartner, or Axeman, because a number of people have done it, I just responded to their particular quotes hoping to make my own feelings known.

I believe he might be iffy, though not altogether negative. I agree with you that it will go away, and if it doesn't I too will be angry with Steve.

But unlike many of the posters on this thread I'm going to wait and see what the real situation turns out to be BEFORE I start accusing Steve of things.

PS - Also you have to update the hangout boards and let us know how your show is going!

 

I'm not quite sure where you got that quote. It reads like that was a response in a different time and place...namely, when Clutch was saying Francis was "pissed." Maybe not, but it wasn't this thread.

btw: this part

"I think Francis is equally afraid of Yao turning into a Duncan/Shaq/Kobe as he is of him flopping. "

Is just silly. I'm comparing Francis being afraid of Yao getting good equal to Yao flopping. I don't really know what that means...lol!!!

The rest of the quote is about choice of system. It is my take that Francis has a weird, inflexible belief in one particular way of playing. Jabbar's style (the UCLA cut) would be a big difference, and if Ming does become a "franchise" player as I say as a BIG IF in that quote, we will be needing to change the system. Odom wouldn't be a big difference. I don't think Francis wants to change the system that much. Can Francis co-exist with all other franchise players, or just certain ones.

It is a question of chemistry and our clear need to change the system...not Francis being "outshined." Maybe "outshine" is one way of describing a drastic change of offense, but I didn't mean it like a little brat who wants the media focused only on him. Obvioulsy, Odom would steal some media away, too.

 

Sorry Heypartner, and Haven.

Heypartner, I attributed Haven's qote to you. It was Haven's quote about Steve being afraid that Ming would be a success. I hope both of you guys will forgive me in one of my many moments of confusion.

I've now edited the original post where I made the initial mistake. IT doesn't make sense in the context of things now hehe. But that's ok I don't mind looking like a fool once in a while.