Nikos, don't start an argument based on extreme interpretations of what I'm saying. You guys started with the "Best Euro Player," which is not true. Bodiroga is. I never said he'd be a bust. You are on the extreme of predictions, not me. As for the "how should he dribble." I think he will learn his lesson from Bowen soon enough. Can't you see when players are exposing the ball? Do you not think NBA defenders look for that? Do you not think the NBA has the best defenders in the world? It is the best defensive league in the world...not even close. As for, "what could he do in those highlights to impress you" First, I was talking about the horrible defense. But to answer your question, I'd like to see him show more offense than what I've seen Shandon Anderson or Larry Hughes do. Those guys are equally athletic. There is no shooting in those clips. Just dunks and drives. At 6'6, he better have some range to go with that. Does he? According to some reports, it is just a "reliable shot," much like how they referred to Shandon at age 25. Those vids are not conclusive. Nachbar is highly regarded as a pure shooter with athleticism like your boy. Nachbar is the better prospect. Bet me.
Nikos a little sensitive are we??? All HP said is essentially don't count your chickens before they hatch. You can be the best player in ANY league (Europe, NCAA, CBA/NDBL) and not be able to jack in the NBA, just ask Miles Simon. Sure it is a good thing for the Spurs have Ginobili, it is possible he becomes a good NBA player because there is talent there, but he has a long way to go. I would say that about Nachbar too, for those Rocket fans who say some dumb stuff like we couldn't use Lewis because Nachbar without a doubt is a future star three. Also, for once I'd like to see MrSpur post "damn--I wish my club hadn't have done that" (granted his motivation to do so on this cite even if he thought this about something might be extra low because we do get some ludicresly anti-Spur stuff here from time to time). As if his organization, like any other, doesn't make bone headed moves of which to call out here and there. Heck, we have 2 rings within the last 10 years yet plenty of times I disgreed with Rocket brass decisions and righly saw no hope in some players (e.g., Langhi, Collier, TMo-at least I don't have much hope in him). It short it makes it awefully hard to judge even detailed and obviously well-researched information when the source seems so bent on pumping up or slamming players almost in direct relation to whether they are a current/future versus never been/former Spurs--rather than trying to take the situation and the player a little objectively.
I've been frustrated about things in the past, no doubt about it. SA did pass on a deal for Barkley back in 1992. I forget if it involved Elliott or if it was Cummings and Wille A. A part of the reason was that SA couldn't afford his current deal or future deal, I forget. That sucks, but it's not my money. What is speculated was that good old Red McCombs didn't want someone with his rep getting paid superstar cash by him. In any event, Barkley went to Phoenix, Cummings went on to blow out his knee in a pickup game that summer, and Rod Strickland walked to Portland that summer as well. Anyways, think about this lineup in 1992-93 (Barkley's MVP year BTW)... 1 Strickland 2 Dale Ellis 3 Elliott 4 Barkley 5 DRob And last summer the fans raised a ruckus about DRob possibly not being brought back which led to the Spurs front office getting nervous about season ticket sales and ad revenues from the new arena so they gave him a big deal immediately instead of waiting longer and seeing if they could make a play for Webber. Supposedly there was some interest on Webber's part though you know how that goes. SA also passed on a deal with the Cavs for Lamond Murray last summer for Samaki Walker and a swap of draft picks. Cap-wise there would have been some implications for next summer but that would've been a nice move. You're right, most of my responses are to the nonsense that flies around in here. I've been following the progress of Ginobili off and on since he was drafted in 1999 so I felt compelled to address some of the comments that I saw in this thread.
All I said was that he was a pick for ROY by some writers and that some front office personnel who were interviewed said he would be a lottery pick if he had been in this year's draft. My mind is already made up. This guy is legit and I'm glad that infuriates you so.
They could have used the Middle Class Exception of $4.5m, but I guess they didn't think he was worth it, this year or last.
Infuriate me?? Alright, if that makes you feel better for showing me clips of a 6'6 leaper with no outside shots in that video. Dime o dozen. Do you not see that I'm questioning European defense and wondering why so many promotional clips (Spider Man, Spider Man) of these guys also show such horrible defense. I'm also laughing at Nachbar's clips. Dude, you are waaaay too sensitive. Go to a Spurs site for stroking about your athletic Dan Langhi's....lol!!!
Last year he was not available. Period. They used the mid level exception to re-up Bowen. He has a shot and he can take his man off the dribble. Athletic as hell. I'm sorry, I thought there were actually some thoughtful NBA fans on this BBS.
Believe whatever you want. They didn't give him the MCE this year, either. They could have signed him for more than Kwama Brown last year, if they thought he was worth it. Sounds like they wanted Bowen more. So, who is better, Bowen or the guy who didn't get the MCE. His shot is nowhere to be found in that video versus the reign of terror Nachbar's promotional video displays. And taking men of the dribble won't happen in the NBA if he shows up with a Shandon Anderson jumper and tendency to expose the ball. Shooting guards cannot drive in the NBA without threatening a pure jumper, first. Everyone else is a role player waiting for a pass from Duncan. I'm sorry. I thought there was no such thing as blind Spur's fanatics on this BBS.
Why should the Spurs have signed Ginobili for more $ if they didn't have to? Sure, San Antonio could have given Ginobili the full MLE and let Bowen walk, but where's the logic in doing that? Hey, San Antonio could have waited until next summer and given Ginobili a max contract, too, but that would be STUPID as would paying the man $4.7 million when he's willing to take $1.4 million. The Spurs owned Ginobili's rights so it's not like there was competition to sign him. It came down to whether or not he wanted to play in the NBA. He did, and he will, having signed for the small exception. I don't think you'd want the Rockets to sign guys to huge contracts when they don't have to either.
Welcome to the board. That was a curious first post. Are you following that I'm talking about why the Spurs didn't sign him BEFORE this year if he indeed is a ROY of candidate at age 25yrs and "best player in the Europe." I said, if he is so good, why didn't he sign earlier. MrSpur was saying the the Spurs had no way to get the Gino out of the bottle last year, presumably based on a buy-out threshhold. If they really wanted him, they had the MCE to use to buy him out. They didn't use it, which I think means they didn't think he was ready. btw: the MCE can be used in parts. They can split it among multiple players. They could have signed him to $2m last year, with plenty to spare for a Gasol type buyout. Surely, if he was that good, he was worth a $2m Shandon-type contract last year after he won MVP of the Finals.
Nikos, if you are not a spurs fan, as you profess not to be in threads past, why in the f-ing hell are you starting up a multi- page thread sweating Emanuel Ginobli, whoever that is, who I imagine you've never seen play (unless you live in Bologna). Is he really that awesome?
Oh get real. How else is he going to get into the NBA? You don't seem to have an understanding of the situation at all. Why spend the money on a guy when you have the leverage? You can run your mouth like you actually know something but the truth is that you don't. Ginobili was not available last summer. Believe in whatever myths you like but that was reality.
He has range and he can definitely take his man off the dribble. He is a very quick player. Ginobili is rated better than Nachbar anyways.
You spurs lovers are insane. Last week it was Duncan is better than Shaq, Rose and Bowen are great bargains and fantastic role players, this week you are playing up Emanuel Ginobli like the second coming of Magic Johnson. (yes, nachbar and ming get the same thing here, well it's a rockets site, go figure). Go ahead and boost the spurs all you want but don't pretend to be objective when you do. Just take your lumps and head back down I 10 with your tails betwixt your legs.
What leverage??? It sounds like his European team had all the leverage last Summer, and the Spurs didn't want to buy him out. If he was the Best European (I still can't believe you (or Nikos) called him the Best European), they would have gotten him. Do you want to back off your "Best European Claim, yet." Because you aren't convincing anyone but yourself. As you say, "Get Real." do you have video of that?? LOL! because this video promotion of "Spider Man, Spider Man" shows nothing from the outside. Is it just a myth. Isn't Dejan Bodiroga rated above both of them. What is your point? One is 29yrs old; one is 25yrs old, and one is 21yrs old. hmmmm. Who is rated highest again???
I like Gino because he is one of the few europeans Ive seen that actually can drive and score in traffic BETTER than any Euro I have seen. I think he can help Duncan out. Also I am KNICKS fan not a Spurs fun, but I do like other NBA teams because I like the players on the TEAM. I like Bibby on the Kings, I like Duncan on the Spurs, I like Darius Miles/Corey Maggette, Jaric on the Clippers, etc.....but deep down I am Knicks fan (since 91 when I started watching ball fanatically). Im sorry if I overeacted, but the way Hp was dissin on Gino was making it seem like he was some scrub. All's I said was he has amazing athleticism (REGARDLESS of whether he exposes the ball or not, and when i say athleticsm, i mean 5 times greater than Shandon Anderson). And I said he could help the Spurs out and HP all of a sudden goes crazy and says he will get STRIPPED everytime and comparing him to Shandon Anderson as if it was an insult to compliment MANU's skills....Im sorry but thats the way I took it and it pissed me off. Also MAV i have seen a few of their games online.....for example Kinder vs Benneton...
Here are the profiles/breakdowns of Nachbar and Ginobili......On www.************** http://www.**************/players/bostjan_nachbar.htm?nav=page Nachbar Fits perfectly into Tomjanovich's uptempo offense... Likes to run the court and finish the break... Above average shooter... Excellent athleticism for European standards... Can play both as a shooting guard or as a small forward... As usual in players coming overseas, must improve on the defensive end. http://www.**************/players/emanuel_ginobili.htm?nav=page Ginobili Considered the best player left in Europe the last two seasons... A candidate to achieve Rookie of the Year honors... Excellent slasher and streaky shooter... Can create his own shot... Excels on the fast break... Very quick and reactive... High level of intensity... Very good defender on the ball... Great athleticism and awesome leaping skills... Will be a very good player in the league... Some more pounds wouldn't hurt. NOTE it says Manu is considered the BEST PLAYER left in Europe. This is what led me to beleive he is more than just a talented average Euro. I have seen Manu play and I find he is very athletic and very fluid in his game. And I like that considering he plays in Euro, and that most Euro's cannot display that kind of athleticism. Look I am a Manu fan already, I also like TP and TD on the Spurs. But based on what I have seen I like the way this guy plays. I am not saying he will be the next Kobe or something, but I think he can make the Spurs better eventually. Also I dont understand why you think he will get stripped all the time, are you saying that because he seems to expose the ball, his skills will be rendered useless and it will take him along time to adapt if its even possible? How manu Euro's do you know as athletic as Manu?? I know he might not become a GREAT NBA player, all I said is he is a great athlete, and can contribute and you kept saying how pissed you were and HOW FUNNY the highlights were of Manu, how crappy the D was and how he EXPOSES the ball. Can you please explain more in detail how he EXPOSES the ball and why you think he wont be able to make acrobatic plays and finish on the NBA level???? I am just curious to know your opinion HP on the exposing part. And everyone else please dont POST about how I am Spurs fan cause Im here saying this guy is athletic and talented and I beleive he can make it in the NBA, if you are gonna post, tell me what you think of MANU not whether I am sensitive to the Spurs or not. Also HP, how do you honestly see MANU doing in this league? Do you see him as a crappy Shandon or do you think he has potential to be a 20ppg scorer alongside Duncan some day? I honestly want to know how you think he and Nachbar will turn out this year and next....
That's because the deal couldn't be bought out last summer. Just like NBA contracts have team and player options in certain years, so do European contracts. Well, I am dealing with someone who knows very little about Ginobili and European basketball.
http://foxsports.lycos.com/content/view?contentId=549882 BY MIKE MONROE FOXSports.com Jun. 24, 2002 2:15 p.m. 10. Which member of this draft class is going to be 2002-03 Rookie of the Year? None of them. Our pick is Emanuel Ginobili, a 6-foot-6 Argentinean and a 1999 draft pick of the Spurs. Ginobili just finished his second season in the Italian League, where he averaged 20 points a game for Kinder Bologna.
