I decided to start this thread to bring together the trade possibilities discussed today for the 9th pick. It seems like there is a lot of discussion on possibly dealing the 9th pick for an established player. It seems like a majority of the posters would trade it for Brian Grant and just about everyone except Sky Pilot thinks 9th for Othella Harrington is crazy. I agree that trading the 9th pick for Brian Grant would be good move for the Rockets. Grant would be the ideal workhorse type PF they could use in the frontcourt. However, I doubt it happens unless Bob Whitsitt has interest in Iakovos Tskalidis. The Rockets would be getting ripped off clean in a Harrington for 9th pick exchange. I find it very odd that Sky Pilot calls people suggesting trades "ignorant" saying they are being unrealistic. Yet, Mr. Rational suggests a trade like this and openly defends it. Othella Harrington would not even start on this Rockets team. Granted, he plays with fire and determination, but he is a black hole on offense, has terrible defensive instincts and is horrid in terms of moving w/o the ball. That is a terrible combination of skills for this team. I would rather have Kenny Thomas than Othella Harrington. Thomas is a much better passer, moves a lot better w/o the ball and has much better face up moves than Harrington. Not to mention, Kenny Thomas runs the pick and roll better than Othella. Citing past No. 9 picks from 3 drafts back is not a good rationale for making this deal. How about trying to slot where Othella would go if he were in this draft? Would he go top 9? HECK NO! Is he a better player than Jerome Moiso? NO WAY! This is just a really bad trade for the Rockets and should not be coming from someone who claims to be Mr. Rational putting down other fans that try to suggest trade ideas. This is an exact reverse of what he preaches against. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I didn't post the last 3 #9's, I posted every #9 since 1985 and showed that there was a 40% of that pick being a bust. Other posters thought that keeping the #9 pick over a proven NBA player with a very friendly contract was worth taking that risk in hopes of landing a Nowitzki or McGrady. But the #9 can be always end up being a Wille Burton. Because of Harrington's really friendly contract, I feel that he can help this team more than the #9. I am not sold on Moiso and the players I see available I see as gambles that could be the next McGrady, but also could be the next Wille Burton. Harrington would not start for this team. Harrington would be another reliable big body up front with Thomas, Cato, and company. Remember Olajuwan won't be around forever so it is smart to plan ahead. Talent alone, Harrington isn't worth the #9 but talent and contract make him worth while.
Harrington would not start for this team. So you would trade the 9th overall selection for a player that would not even start on this team just b/c you fear that player would turn into Willie Burton? You would totally disregard that the Rockets under Rudy T and CD have a good drafting history for the most part. Yet you would rather take on an extra body that you yourself admit cannot even start instead of going for someone like Jerome Moiso who has a ton potential. Sounds "Rational" to me Maybe all us "ignorant" Rockets fans that keep discussing far fetched trades should support this disastrous move. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
If everything goes bad with Moiso or if Harrington gets dealt for more value, I hope you show your face here agian. I hate repeating myself but half of Harrington's value is his contract which would be very nice future trade bait or as a key reserve.
I'd rather take my chances with Moiso (although I like Othella). The success of draft picks can't be determined by looking at the percentage of players who have turned out to be a bust at that number. There have been plenty of number one selections who haven't produced as promised. There is no guarantee concerning any player taken in the draft. But let me also say that there is no guarantee concerning marginal veteran players. Does Othella fit the Rockets anymore? Could he simply pick up where he left off with this team? I think the answer is no. ------------------
I have seen Moiso play in person twice. While I was impressed with his physical characteristics; I was really disappointed by his toughness and "court smarts." He has the potential but is a definite risk. I am hoping for Mike Miller to be available at #9. (and no this isn't my anti-UCLA bias speaking)
Agreed TraJ. Good points. I dont think Othella fits that well with this current team. To fit with the Rockets you have to be able to move well without the ball, you cannot be a black hole on offense and thus need to be able to move the ball. SkyPilot, ofcourse I'll show my face "If everything goes bad with Moiso or if Harrington gets dealt for more value." I have no problem facing criticism if something I say turns out wrong. How about you? Will you have disappeared totally if Moiso pans out or if the Grizz dont get a lot for Harrington? You just do not trade a commodity like the 9th pick for Harrington when you already know Harrington cannot start on your team. Just b/c his contract is favorable does not make it ok. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
But recent history of the #9, has been very, very good. The last 3 years have Marion, Nowitzki, and McGrady. Not bad at all. Do teams at #1 shy away, because of picks like Coleman, Ellison, and Sampson and soon even Olowakandi? Or at #2 because of Bowie? Harrington no longer "fits the system" and is poor on defense. Besides, why exactly would we be the guys that are "nice" to Vancouver, and open up a perfect spot for Swift? At least make them bring a major contract off the bench. Harrington wants out. He can be had MUCH cheaper. The reason the Grizzlies would want #9 is for Tsakalidis. No way they're getting it from Houston without giving up either #2, or Reef somehow, which basically means NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Sky Pilot-I'd like a list of the 28 other teams that want to acquire Grant. Portland already has him, and Houston doesn't count. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
I think Moiso is a gamble. He does have a chance to be o.k. but we are talking about a guy that lacks "balls" and is not a natural scorer. Just because a player won't start for a team doesn't mean he isn't valuble. Odds are that the guy we take at #9 won't start. NIKEstrad, Because a player wants out doesn't mean he can be had. And I think you are intelligent enough to figure out who the other 28 teams that would like (or like to keep) Grant are. F.Y.I. (the #8) 1985 - Detlef Schrempf 1986 - Ron Harper 1987 - Olden Polynice 1988 - Rex Chapman 1989 - Randy White 1990 - Bo Kimble 1991 - Mark Macon 1992 - Todd Day 1993 - Vin Baker 1994 - Brian Grant 1995 - Shawn Respert 1996 - Kerry Kittles 1997 - Adonal Foyle 1998 - Larry Hughes 1999 - Andre Miller
Sky Pilot-Portland and Houston are 2 teams, there are 29 in the NBA. That means only 27 other possibilities...unless you're counting Euro or CBA? Now, onto your "big body" argument. Well, looking at this cap wise, it doesn't work. We'd have to give up someone, like Carlos Rogers to get Othella. Rogers may not be as good as Othella, but he has 6 fouls the same as him. As I've said before, and many others, Othella doesn't fit this team. It'd be much better to keep the #9, or trade down, or trade up or in a package, than to give up on it, for a player we know exactly what he brings to the table, but not exactly what we need. Of other note-In a Vancouver article, it stated Tsakalidis is likely a top 8 pick. The Rockets aren't in the top 8. Spoils that idea, doesn't it? ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Sky Pilot, Listing past picks is not a good way to evaluate trading this pick. Every draft is different and some GMs are just not as good talent evaluators as others. The proper question to ask is do you think the player you will get at 9 will be better than Othella Harrington or not? I would much rather have Jerome Moiso on this team than Othella Harrington. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 06, 2000).] [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 06, 2000).]
I know what to expect from Harrington, I do not know what to expect from Moiso and neither does anyone else. Let's just say I am very skeptical about Moiso and I am hoping that Miller is available at #9.
In case no one has realized it yet, you can't argue with Skypilot. He has no idea what an opinion is. Everything is fact and everything he says is the truth. Just ask him and he'll tell you. ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
LOL Rocketsauce! We are quickly finding that out about "Mr. Rational". ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Rocketsauce, If you can't tell, I am defending my own opinion, not condemning other people's opinions.
Whether or not a Harrington deal would be wise is based on what you're trying to accomplish here. If you simply want to mitigate the risk of a drafting a player, then yes, Harrington is more of a known commodity. If you're trying to build a contender, then you've got to try to acquire the highest level talent that you can. While Harrington would be a nice addition, he's not going to substantially upgrade our talent level. Some of the players available at #9 have the potential to be key players in the Rocket's future. Are they sure things? Nope. But, if you don't take the risk, then you're doomed to remaining mediocre. ------------------
I have already pointed out 10 teams that would not be willing to trade a pick even near a #5 for Grant, and SP still maintains just about every NBA team would salivate over Grant. To retierate: "There are a number of teams that would have limited (read not "none", but limited) interest in Brian Grant. Just to name a few Portland (obviously, they will be trying to unload him), Chicago, Sacremento, SA, Denver, Seattle, Charlotte, Toronto, Utah, etc. Even team desperate for a better low post game (e.g., Golden State) would not trade a young 5ish pick quality player (either Jamison or Hughes) for Brian Grant." Grant is a good workman player, probably not quite as valuable as A. Davis last year because he is a less effective as a center and has missed a lot of recent games due to injury), but nonetheless a very comparable player A. Davis. And no young rebuilding team is trade away a potential Jonothon Bender again for a Davis/Grant type player, and it is those teams with the draft picks. Toronto really thought Davis was the piece they needed, so they made the move. No team will duplicate their mistake. I believe after the draft and team postering, there is a much better chance that Portland would trade Grant for a 9ish pick, then anyone would take on Oth while giving up a 9ish pick. I still think in Grant a 7 or 8 pick is reasonable, not far from our 9 pick. Othella (a very good back-up PF) is not worth a lottery pick, but a 16 or 17 could be about right. SP, I guess we will just have see about this, hopefully the offseason will be informative. ------------------
aelliot-- Great point. I couldn't have said it better. Do we want to make it to the playoffs, or the championship? Making the playoffs is nice, but I dont want to be like the Blazers, Suns, etc... ------------------ The Chuckwagon came, saw, and threw people through windows!
I would take the 9th pick over Harrington but I would trade(in a heartbeat)the 9th pick for Grant. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
