But Brent Barry wasn't on his team, Smush Parker was. Kobe is not a dumb player, he's smart but he's also a great player. A Kobe contested mid-range jumper is often more likely to go in than a wide open one by Smush Parker. It's funny how everyone started talking about how Kobe had grown as a player when Pau joined the team. He started passing because he had better players around him. Yeah, Kobe makes mistakes but it's mostly because he's had some success in those situations. J.J. Redick has cut down on mistakes because if he didn't he would be a huge negative to any basketball team and out of the league.
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5hfYJsQAhl0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5hfYJsQAhl0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
I don't understand. Where are the stats about his "risky" defense causing more havoc than benefits. Where are the stats about his "risky" defense outweighing his offense? Just because he leaves his man doesn't mean he's doing it just for the steals. You have to consider the fact that he is not always guarding the opposing best player all the time. Yeah, getting bounced out of the first round always falls on one person. . That's the Kobe who just won a championship last year scoring 30ppg and 1.6 spg in last years playoffs. In 05-06 he was shooting 0.497, 28ppg and in 06-07 he was shooting .462, 32ppg. So he's really taking bad shots causing him to get bounced in the first round in those years huh? Stop talking out of your ass. This whole article is ridiculous. There should never be an article written comparing Redick and Kobe in terms of basketball ability/IQ.
Kobe Bryant knows what he's doing. He goes in to a game with a plan. I remember watching Kobe Bryant in studio with Charles and Kenny and he was explaining that him personally scoring a bunch of points against the Pistons is more devastating than him scoring against the Suns since they'll just run back and keep scoring. That's why we saw Kobe Bryant abuse Shane Battier that one game early in the first half. I really doubt JJ Redick obsesses over the game like Kobe Bryant.
Who cares if Redick has a higher bb IQ than any of the top players in the NBA? It's not like he can use that intelligence because he's just a damn spot shooter.
I'll trust Tex Winter's take (here): [rquoter] Winter also admits that Bryant abandons aspects of the triangle offense with some regularity. But that's not Winter's main complaint with the guard: "I'd like to see him play better defense," Winter said, adding that he had addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea that Bryant was intent on changing his approach. "You know Kobe," Winter said with a chuckle. "He has his game plan. I think he heard me. But he feels there's a certain way he's got to play the game. But it doesn't involve a lot of basically sound defense." Because the Lakers need so much of his effort at the offensive end, Bryant has adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end, Winter said. "He's basically playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up, trying to come up with the interception. "The way Kobe plays defensively affects the team," Winter added. "Anybody that doesn't play consistently good defense hurts the team. That's not only Kobe. Our other guards tend to gamble and get beat. Another problem is that the screen and roll is not played correctly."[/rquoter] You asked about stats. Defense is difficult to measure with stats. But players that rate poorly in defensive adjusted +/- (here) are usually poor defenders. Kobe is great on the ball, but when playing off the ball if his tendency is to swerve away from the game plan (as his own coach said) than that can have a negative impact. The difference with Battier is he's one of the best in the league at understanding and sticking to a game plan.
So we're just generalizing? So what this writer/consultant says happens all the time? Coaches coach but it's the players that get it done. Your point on it being difficult to measure defense is exactly what I'm saying. Unless you going over every game he's played and take notes on what he's doing defensively off the ball, all of this is garbage/nonsense. I would understand if this thread was about a defensive focused player like Battier but this is seriously nitpicking on the best player in the game about nothing. It's not like he's taking every chance he gets to go after a steal. So when Kobe has a bad shooting night, someone will write a thread comparing his bball IQ to Rafer. If you seriously think Redick has a higher DEFENSIVE bball IQ than Kobe, just save face now and stop posting in this thread.
What a stupid article. JJ Redick and Kobe should never ever ben placed in the same sentence. It's like saying Erica Dumpier is a good 6+ inches taller than Kobe. So what?
Wasn't that article written a couple of years back? I'm sure Winter would change his opinion/thoughts after seeing how much Kobe has grown as a player the past two yeras.
No, you were generalizing when you offered: "How can u say Kobe takes bad shots, he's Kobe Bryant. The part about Kobe following the ball on defense is so stupid. That's called playing team defense." If Kobe's own coach said he wasn't happy with his defense, you've got nothing to stand on with that. I guarantee you that Tex Winter and Charlie Rosen have followed Kobe more closely and taken more notes on his defense than you have or ever will. The most detailed account of his defense over the course of a game that I've seen was done by Kevin Pelton some years back: http://www.82games.com/pelton8.htm Quoting him: [rquoter] Before I draw any conclusions from what I saw, let me repeat Smith's standard caveat: Yes, one game is not necessarily an indicator of performance over the entire season. Bryant's final defensive line was fairly poor - 5-8.5 shooting (credit can be split between two players in Oliver's defensive system) with one forced turnover. My subjective impression was much more mixed. Throughout the game, I was impressed by Bryant's combination of size and agility. It allows him to make spectacular plays like his pair of blocks, but also has the more subtle effect of allowing him to cheat off of his man and still recover effectively. Bryant is also an intelligent player who knows how to use his God-given skills. At the same time, there's a reason this feature is called "Every Play Counts." Defense is about more than making one or two big plays. Bryant's risk-taking can be harmful for his team. I also feel he coasted a bit on defense, especially in terms of coming down in transition D, when he often would hang back and take the trailer. This in particular could be how Phil Jackson wants Bryant to play, and it's also true that if Bryant has to take a play or two off, you want him to do it on defense. [/rquoter] Pelton's observations fall in line with what Rosen wrote, what Kobe's own coach observed, and even what defensive guru Jeff Van Gundy has said during broadcasts. Kobe is a good defender "when he wants to be". He's very good in isolated plays when he's on the ball. He's physical, and has a reputation that earns extra leeway in bodying up players from officials. As a team defender, he'll wander from the game plan. And the data shows that his team over the years probably does not defend any better with him on the floor (even adjusting for strength of competition). I don't need to agree or disagree with Rosen's assessment in comparing Kobe and Redick's "IQ". But your particular response about Kobe's defense being simply good "team defense" and comparing him to Battier could not go unchallenged.
You've read "The Art of a Beautiful Game", right? Wasn't there a line in that first chapter from one of Kobe's coaches that he has a tendency to do his own thing even when he knows what he should be doing is something else? "He knows what he's supposed to do, but he does't always do it" -- something to that effect? Whether you want to call that bad IQ or just poor decision making doesn't make a difference to me.
Kobe does take a lot of bad shots. It doesn't matter as much today because there really aren't too many players as good as him and there really aren't too many teams as good as his. So he can get away with it. He can hit them to boot. It only becomes relevant when you start comparing him to other greats, like MJ. When you watched Jordan play, he didn't do as many dumb things as Kobe does on the court. For whatever reason, he just got better shots. The same goes for LeBron.
Hey, all I'm saying is if you ask Tex Winter today if he feels Kobe has improved defensively I'm sure he'll say that he has. Kobe isn't an all-world defender (even though he has/had the gifts to do so) but he's just as much a gambler as the next guy. People praise Paul's knack for stealing the ball but that, in itself, is an individual gamble that, if does not succeed, puts his other 4 teammates in a bind. The prime example of this was Iverson during his first tenure with the Sixers. With the Pelton link that you had cited (from 2005), again, I would like to see what people's recent opinions are of Kobe's defense. Kobe Bryant, as a player, has been noticeably different now than he was 4-5 years ago.
i think kobe is actually a very smart player. there have been many times over the years where i watched him make plays that only a smart person paying attention to details would make. his supreme confidence in himself does tend to make him try to make plays he shouldn't a little too often, and while the effect (not making a good play) is the same, i would tend to separate that from overall bball iq, which i would boil down to understanding the game and not so much understanding your limitations. what everyone has said about his D and taking plays off and gambling too much is certainly true. i do tend to think those both go down in the lakers more high profile games. i think kobe knows the lakers are good and going to win most games and that a gamble here and there probably won't make them lose and so he takes chances he's not capable of cashing in on because he thinks he can do anything and because there's a high reward (free breakaway dunk). in the bigger plays he doesn't get lazy as much. as for redick, not that i've seen a ton of his game, but i never get the impression he's any sort of high IQ player. not that i think he's a dumb player, it's just that his general game of taking spot up jumpers doesn't lend itself to discerning intelligence one way or the other. and his defense doesn't seem extraordinary compared to his athleticism or anything. and giving him credit for not going outside of himself is stupid. he's a role player. there are tons of role players who don't go outside of themselves very often. why? because role players who play outside of themselves tend to start accumulating ass splinters from the bench in short order.
Perhaps you're right, but Kobe was earning All-Defense team honors even back then. Its not like his reputation as a defender has dramatically changed. More than anything, I think he's become a better teammate, and he picks his spots more on the offensive and he's matured out of his "Teen Wolf" phase. Has that translated into him being a smarter defender? I don't know if I've heard that, but it could be. It would make some sense.
I'll give you that. I'm not into that storyline "Grown as a man/saw the light" stuff. Smush Parker was THAT bad. Kobe Bryant is 1st team defense cuz of guys like you. When the reality is for Kobe its based more on reputation than anything factual. You think Kobe puts even near the effort on D as Shane Battier? There's just people that think the safe play, the stay-at-home D is the best D. Bruce Bowen didnt get a lot of steals or blocks and still recognized as a good defender. Plus Rosen didnt actually say outright Kobe is a BAD defender. He said he makes adventurous off-the-gameplan decisions that makes his team's defense susceptible. Derek Fisher has more higher "IQ" on defense perhaps, certainly not ability. Just like Redick. McGrady has similar playoff numbers?
Not sure this supports Rosen very much. Kobe is intelligent and may be playing "how Phil Jackson wants (him) to play." Gee whiz. Reddick is probably playing the way his coach wants him to play also: not very much. Stupid, stupid Rosen article. Never too early to repeat that. I just don't think low-IQ b-ball players lead their teams to many championships. The league has its faults, but it's too good for that. Think Kemp and Payton. No dice.
Kobe played along Fisher, and before that, it was Smush Parker. I would be surprised if he doesn't roam when his man is off ball. Sure he can stick to and shut down your man, and at the same time Fisher will be exposed to death in no time. If I were Kobe, I wouldn't mind luring my man to be open, and try to recover, and if my man really gets hot, I can still shut him down. Now what can I do if Fisher's man is hot? Kobe can't guard many PGs in the league, he's not that fast. It's a team game, and any experienced defensive player knows to balance it out. Stick to your man can make you look good but isn't necessarily the best for the team. Kobe studied games more so than any players or coaches, I doubt he had dumb game plan. On given night, his strategy may hurt the team, but I believe Lakers benefit from it overall. Kobe even hired stat guru guy to help him in person, he can quickly find the problem if it's not working.
Yeah because I voted for him. . If anyone has a reputation for defense it's battier. Don't get me wrong, I love having Battier on the team but he's not the best defender in the league. Battier has his tendencies on offense as well (such as posting up and doing behind the back passes, and don't forget his swing the ball left-right-left go right move), but do we don't really question his bball IQ. Why is Kobe all of a sudden a bad decision maker? Bruce Bowen is dirty as he is a good defender. Enough said about him. I don't understand how you can get any steals without "going off plan" unless the opposing player basically turns it over to you. You get steals by surprising the offense. What the hell is so adventurous about going for a steal? I really dislike playing against Kobe, but why Kobe? Wade does this a lot, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondon, all go for steals. I guess those guys make their teams suck on defense. So much garbage about nothing, it's r****ded.
LOL @ the stupidity of this article. Most of the reasons why have been covered in this thread... I'll leave it to those with the higher IQ's to figure it out.
