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[AP]Blessed are the conservative in Bible translation

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ottomaton, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    [rquoter]

    Blessed are the conservative in Bible translation
    A new online project seeks to purge liberal views from the scriptures


    CHARLESTON, West Virginia - The Gospel of Luke records that, as he was dying on the cross, Jesus showed his boundless mercy by praying for his killers this way: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

    Not so fast, say contributors to the Conservative Bible Project.

    The project, an online effort to create a Bible suitable for contemporary conservative sensibilities, claims Jesus' quote is a disputed addition abetted by liberal biblical scholars, even if it appears in some form in almost every translation of the Bible.

    The project's authors argue that contemporary scholars have inserted liberal views and ahistorical passages into the Bible, turning Jesus into little more than a well-meaning social worker with a store of watered-down platitudes.

    "Professors are the most liberal group of people in the world, and it's professors who are doing the popular modern translations of the Bible," said Andy Schlafly, founder of Conservapedia.com, the project's online home.

    'Reworking scripture'

    Experts who have devoted their careers to unraveling the ancient texts of the Scriptures, many in long-extinct languages, are predictably skeptical about a project by amateur translators.

    "This is not making scripture understandable to people today, it's reworking scripture to support a particular political or social agenda," said Timothy Paul Jones, a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, who calls himself a theological conservative.

    Religious publishers already provide an alphabet soup of Bible translations for a range of theological outlooks, from the King James Version to the Revised Standard Version and beyond. The most widely used traditional translations were overseen by scholars who are considered the best minds in conservative Christianity.

    "The phrase 'theological conservative' does not mean that someone is politically conservative," said Schlafly, who lives in Far Hills, New Jersey.

    This liberal slanting, Schlafly argues, ranges from changing gendered language — Jesus calling his disciples to be "fishers of people" rather than "fishers of men" — to more subtle choices, like the 2001 English Standard Version of the Bible, which uses "comrade" and "laborer" more often than the conservative-friendly "volunteer."

    Contributors to the project aren't arguing on ideological grounds alone. The discussion forum on the site is full of discourse on Greek grammar, along with arguments long familiar to Biblical scholars about the history of certain passages.

    Take the famous passage from Luke: the Conservative Bible Project omits it not only because it's "a favorite of liberals," but because there's some dispute over its authenticity, based on the manuscripts it appears in.

    Ancient debate

    Jones, the professor, said while some early Greek manuscripts omit Jesus' words, others include them.

    "There are so many factors to consider when looking at that, but here it gets boiled down to 'liberals put it in,'" he said. "You've got people who are doing this who have probably never looked at an actual ancient manuscript."

    In some ways, the Conservative Bible Project reflects an ancient debate over Scripture. The Bible as it's known today more or less took final shape in the 4th century after hundreds of years of debate over which books were canonical.

    The debate flared up again during the Protestant Reformation, when Martin Luther fruitlessly yearned to cut the Book of James because of its fairly explicit contradiction of his belief that salvation could be attained by faith alone.

    "People have always done this with the Bible," said Philip Jenkins, a professor of history and religious studies at Pennsylvania State University. "Virtually everyone in a mainstream Protestant or Roman Catholic church in the United States is reading a doctored version of the Bible."

    Jenkins is referring to the Revised Common Lectionary, a selection of biblical texts read in worship services that amounts to about a third of the full text.

    'Every translator is a traitor'

    Schlafly's project is distinctive, though, because non-experts collaborate Wiki-style on the Internet to produce their version.

    "The best of the public is better than a group of experts," said Schlafly, whose mother, Phyllis, is a longtime conservative activist known for her opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment.

    Jones says the project is a misguided effort to read contemporary politics back into the text.

    "Ironically, there's a long tradition of the liberal twisting of scripture," Jones said. "Scholars have rightly deemed those translations illegitimate, and this conservative Bible is every bit as illegitimate."

    The Bible's roots in a dizzying variety of ancient manuscripts require a lifetime of dedication to master, said the Rev. Frank Matera, a professor at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., and a former president of the Catholic Biblical Association of America.

    "There's a little Italian proverb, 'Every translator is a traitor,'" Matera said. "Most Bible translations are usually done by a group of scholars, precisely so they can balance out each other. It's not something that everybody can do."

    [/rquoter]

    source

    Anybody want to try and defend this? As with Conservapedia, it must be so much easier to deal with reality when you get to edit out any bits and pieces that you are uncomfortable with.
     
  2. DrewP

    DrewP Member

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    "This is not making scripture understandable to people today, it's reworking scripture to support a particular political or social agenda," said Timothy Paul Jones, a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, who calls himself a theological conservative.

    This about sums it up. Coupled with the delicious irony of the Bible being the product of political and social agendas to begin with, everyone looks pretty ridiculous to me.
     
  3. Al Calavicci

    Al Calavicci Contributing Member

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    madmax faints
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Perhaps in time they can break away and found their own Christian sounding sect.
     
  6. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    Simpsons did it.
     
  8. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    What's next? Will they get to translate the Constitution as well?
     
  9. Landlord Landry

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  10. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    They might as well declare that Jesus himself is too liberal and appoint themselves a new messiah to worship.

    At this point they've already deposed God from the authority position on His own word, so why not?
     
  11. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

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    Believe it or not, editing the Bible to reflect your political views has been going on in conservative churches for years.
     
  12. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Member

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    Of course it has. The Bible has been revised, edited, and reinterpreted so many times it's not even funny. Which is one of the reasons why it should be taken with a VERY large grain of salt. The Bible is "God's word" filtered through the minds of men for two thousand years. Do we really believe it hasn't been changed in all that time?

    These folks with the CBP are idiots, and the "Bible" they end up with will be completely useless. However, I think anyone who puts 100% of their trust in any version of a two thousand year-old book is using questionable judgment.
     
  13. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    God* I love this. Is it a clutchfans production?

    * = Here I mean the God who loves both conservatives and liberals.
     
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    This will be worth watching.

    [rquoter]

    Colbert to Interview Conservapedia Founder Andrew Schlafly

    If you want to know what a pencil is or find out what the heck is in marmalade, but you want to be spared from reading about their uses for smoking Islamic pot and performing abortions at gay, atheist, flag-burning, estate-tax orgies, you don't go to liberally-biased Wikipedia, you go to Conservapedia. After all, it's the only online encyclopedia with the common sense to stay on the fence about the extinction of dinosaurs.

    Well, on next Tuesday's Colbert Report, Stephen will sit down for an interview with Andrew Schlafly, who is the founder of Conservapedia and not, as I first thought, the guy from Wham who's not George Michael.

    Below, you can see a segment Stephen did in October about Conservapedia's attempt to remove the liberal media bias from The Bible.

    <table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com'>The Colbert Report</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/251994/october-07-2009/tip-wag---conservapedia--louvre---honda-unicycle'>Tip/Wag - Conservapedia, Louvre & Honda Unicycle<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>www.colbertnation.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:251994' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/full-episodes'>Colbert Report Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/254015/november-02-2009/sport-report---nyc-marathon---olympic-speedskating'>U.S. Speedskating</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

    The Colbert Report airs Monday through Thursday at 11:30pm / 10:30c.

    [/rquoter]
     
  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think a wiki-style translation project would be a healthy exercise for those who engaged in it. Making it specifically aimed at making the translation conservative is probably a mistake (begging the question). But, looking at primary sources, reading about ancient languages, thinking deeply about the minutia of a sacred document, debating with others about how best to render its meaning -- those should all be pretty good for you.
     
  16. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    I'm going to contribute to the section on Jesus with the dinosaurs.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I think they are going to edit the Bible to say things like: "blessed are the war makers...."

    "It is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than for a poor or middle class man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven".

    "The poor ye shall always have because they deserve it since they are sinners".

    They will have Jesus say: "go forth and maximize your financial profits"

    Entire chapters will be devoted to the central theme of the Bible such as gays and abortion and almost all references to Jesus associating with poor folks or criminals will be deleted.

    In the wedding of Canan Jesus will change the wine into water at the beginning of the wedding to keep the wedding party from sinning.

    "Cursed are the meek as they will deserve their poverty here and in Heaven". Besides they don't even have an MBA.

    It will be clarified that the only time you render unto Caesar is for Crusades.
     
    #17 glynch, Dec 7, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  18. twhy77

    twhy77 Member

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    As a Conservative Catholic, let me make sure that everyone knows this guy is nuts.

    What is inherently not-Conservative about telling one criminal who repented he would be in heaven with Christ and not telling the other criminal who didn't repent the same?

    The editor of Conservepedia obviously doesn't know what it means to be Conservative.
     

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