how does any capital intensive venture work? you raise money by debt or equity, create your capital intensive project/whatever. and in due time...it gets big enough to help you pay back the debt you raised and reward your equity holders. tourism today may not be bringing in dollars. but the hope/argument is that in due time it will. that being said, obviously bankers recently have had less than good judgment...so they could have been wrong...
Again, nothing here to say that Dubai will ever default. If the request is denied, it will be paid in full. Cash. Everyone loves overblowing this, but the fact of the matter is that Abu Dhabi will not let Dubai default. As for Islamic finance, I hope that crap-hole of an industry gets destroyed asap. It is an embarrasment to Islam in my opinion.
But, just like with any debt, there was collateral. That collateral was and is the federal government's backing. It has always been this way. Again, this issue is internal. Dubai will do everything it can to avoid taking another dollar from the federal government. I think that's logical. The FT currently loves crapping on Dubai because so many of their buddies were canned over here recently lol.
if dubai world has this kind of cash lying around, why is it requesting the delay? also is this request dependent on unanimous approval or not? if not, if its a simple majority, then aren't a significant minority being denied their due rights based on dubai world's whims? secondly you're completely ignoring dubai's disclaimer of any guarantee on dubai world bonds today. i agree. i just am waiting to see AD make dubai it's brown servant boy. your personal viewpoints on the authenticity of the industry are kind of irrelevant. maybe you should have directed this towards Nakheel issuing the largest islamic bond offering ever. then why was DP taken out of possible restructuring? dubai is unilaterally dictating what is up for grabs regarding collateral and what is not. and many believe this is the reason why dubai is in this mess. it was too slow to go ask for money, and is not willing to make concessions AD wants. [rquoter]Why so long? Because the proud Sheikh Mohammed, it seems, was reluctant to be bailed out by his richer neighbour, possibly fearing it would put a damper on Dubai’s image and constrain its independence. Nor was he willing to part with some of Dubai’s crown jewels at distressed prices. Some people suspect that it is the same dogged resistance that has landed Dubai in this week’s mess. [/rquoter]roula khalaf - ft first of all, i only used the ft source in the previous post regarding a factual reality...FT wasn't doing anything there except reporting. of course, in dubai, reporting something critical of its handling of the financial crisis can cause you to be shut down. so your opinion, completely plausibly and reasonably, has to be nice and kind to dubai's leadership. otherwise who knows what could happen to you. maybe you'd be sodomized and run over with a suv. or maybe you'd just be shut down. then again, i don't think your from the subcontinent or east asia, so you probably wouldn't be treated so bad. you're not a slave. mind you, i have no problems with creditors getting a nice trimming. its what happens when you loan stupidly, as they surely did. i just find your fanboy love affair and defense, to be improper, though understandable due to aforementioned censorship in the UAE and most of the GCC.
A couple of years ago I had an outside chance to work in Dubai. Today I'm glad I didn't get that job.
1) Dubai and the UAE are not a democracy. Wrap your head around that for a second. Now ask yourself why people ignore that fact before investing, and then whine about it when they lose. 2) I cant wait for AD's help. I don't see why it interests YOU though. Why do you seem so happy for Dubai to become indebted to AD? I don't understand this. 3) It was a general observation. I could care less about "Islamic" bonds - an oxymoron FYI. Nakheel is a commercially driven entity, it will do anything to make money. 4) Ugh. DP was taken out for good reason. I'm not about to discuss this with you considering your information source is clearly just european/US media and mine is, uhhhhh, I live/work here for the regulator. You can't believe that I work for the regulator and I dont consider your info credible, so whats the point debating anymore? 5) lol easy to blame the censorship for everything. Again, you seem to have a deep hatred for Dubai/UAE/I don't know. I don't know why you're trying to pin it on me either. There are people here in Dubai who make an honest living, take the risks of a non-democracy into account, help those who are less fortunate and did not fall for smoke and mirrors. Forgive me if I don't give a damn about those so inter-twined with greed that they began ignoring risks and suddenly are screaming about ethics. Where were the ethics when the cash was coming in? Did they care about the rents/property going sky high? Did they take responsibility for the faith placed in them to handle a free market? No. So now the hammer comes down. Many people have lost their jobs and many more will. Some freedoms will be taken away. This is how the world works. The last thing anyone in Dubai needs is for the FT to try to ring up sales by putting out biased reports. There are people on the inside who are fighting for more freedoms and people like the FT are destroying those efforts. For what? For jealousy? Because the girlfriend of an FT contributer got punched in the face for being drunk and rude in public? Boo-hoo. The "western" media is being super-biased, which is understandable because they want to oppose any media bias from within Dubai. To be on either side is ridiculously stupid IMO when the answer clearly lies in the middle. Was it so long ago that they made everyone think that Nakheel was going to simply default and collapse into sand because of its next payment? Laughable. Look, there are a lot of moving parts so there will be a lot of talk. Let's continue this discussion on 2 December 2009 when I'm sure we'll have more to discuss.
Enjoy buddy: http://gulfnews.com/business/economy/world-bank-voices-vote-of-trust-in-dubai-1.551444 http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2009/pr09433.htm http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2009/CAR120409A.htm Again, this will be a blip on the screen for the residents of Dubai. It will not even be a blip to the UAE. It will be a non-factor to the rest of the world. The only issue here is UAE INTERNAL transfer of power. Which, again, I don't understand why you're so excited by lol.
*cough* "Abu Dhabi government provided $10 billion for Dubai’s financial support fund to help repay obligations, including the $4.1 billion needed for Nakheel PJSC’s Islamic bond maturing today." *cough* Some recommendations for insane man. Maybe bigtexx can join.
The market goes up and down all the time. In six months the investor may owe twice what they owe now or could be out of the dark with $60 billion credit. A lot of oil exporting nations besides Saudi Arabia are losing money.
I just read it on BBC and remembered this thread and came here to post it. You could have waited before patting yourself on the back
So how long do you think it will be before Iran occupies the rest of the UAE? I am reading that the USA government is more than a little pleased with this development as they have long wished for the pro-USA Abu Dhabi government to exercise more control over Dubai and reign in its current status as the world's leading rendezvous point for global extremists and terrorists.
I'm sure you're reading but it's just not true because: a) No one is more pro-USA than Dubai. b) Abu Dhabi would not be able to do that anymore than Dubai can. c) Legally speaking, Abu Dhabi has not taken any equity in Dubai as part of this deal. But I'm sure, much like the overblown Dubai saga, it is good for selling newspapers to create that sharp contrast between Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
Dubai generates more money than the previous day every single day simply because of ongoing completed projects. Though the world is under the impression that Dubai has stopped construction, 90% percent of projects are still on target and are beginning to generate income. Granted, the ROI won't be as high, but there are still tons of people moving to Dubai and Dubai continues to generate income. Case in point, profits on the tallest building in the WORLD have not been booked by Emaar yet - a building which sold out 6 months ago but has not opened its doors yet. But the media will choose to act shocked again in January. The eyes of the world need to understand that living in Dubai is not like living in New York or Washington. News travels fast and information doesn't pass through 50 layers before getting to you. If anyone was worried, we wouldn't be so confident. That's why I said I'd gladly host anyone who comes down here. The media puts out such a distorted image that it's impossible for you to have a clear picture till you've been here for a short while. I know this because I haven't lived here my whole life and have seen it from the outisde.
lol, you're ever the sunshine pumper regarding your Dubai. The occupancy rate in Dubai on recently completed buildings in 41%. Things better pick up (and quick) or there's going to be massive defaults by those landlords. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125936720204567249.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular
Ha. 1) 41% is better than 0%, which was the case before being built. That was my only point. 2) 41% in brand new projects, at the moment, is at or above the global average. 3) They will pick up. Just like the jaws which were picked up by $10 billion cash buddy. Just lying around. No need to print. No need to sell equity. No debt raising. CASH bro.
