[Gossip] T-Mac in trade talks; Involves Kevin Martin and Nocioni

not much heart, does not go to the hole, shoot jumpers, lack of D, rarely drive for a loose ball, not scrappy, and surely not a bargain with his contract.

 

pretty sure no one will know until it happens. to be fair it was posted by a reliable member. he may be getting bad info but the deal does make sense and isn't too outlandish because it does have its drawbacks and benefits.

 

I am curious as to what you think of as a Morey-type player and why Martin does not fit that description.

To me, Morey seems to look for anyone who is undervalued/underpaid and would help the team win games. Morey players have included elite defenders (Battier, Hayes), kind of nutty guy who is somewhat surprisingly effective on both ends of the floor (Artest), non-nutty version of Artest (Ariza), older guys in the last years of their usefulness (Mutombo, Barry), undersized but athletic guys (Landry, AB), Euro vets trying their hands on NBA ball (Andersen, Scola). I think there is a case to be made that Kevin Martin is a Morey player.

The guy makes 11 million a year, not cheap, but it’s half of what the real superstars make. He’s signed through his prime during the course of the contract and is unlikely to command that much more once the contract ends.

He has obvious holes in his game, but when he hoists the shot up, points accumulate at a high rate. .600 TS% on what was an injury-plagued down-year. Martin’s efficiency is pretty much equal to Yao Ming’s. It helps team offensive efficiency quite a bit when, say, 20-25% of your possessions ends up in a shot attempt (including those resulting in FTs) by someone with .600 TS%. Sure, we wish Martin would do better creating for teammates, but then again, we wish Yao Ming could do a better job dealing with fronting D or pass the ball in the high post, etc. A player with that kind of shooting efficiency is pretty damn good even if there are holes in their game.

One concern about him is the lack of defense. He is below par, but perhaps a good defensive team system would allow him to not hurt the team there. I mean, he is no good there, but is he really Steve Novak bad?

 

I meant that facetiously.

As far as this deal, I personally wouldn't do it. Kevin Martin adds nothing to this team. We are already scoring fine within the flow of the offense. If we are trading McGrady, it needs to be for someone who brings some unique aspect to the team - either the ability to score off the dribble or size.

 

Agree for the most part but I would think this would be a deal that leads to another deal...type of thing.

DD

 

I think this is a decent deal to do. You are trading away T-mac's play making abilities though for better shooting efficiency.

However; k-mart likes to take a lot of shots - more so than T-mac. I am surprised Dada would support this deal.

I think it's a good trade if Adelman can get K-mart to play within the offense and be a willing passer - something he has not done in his career.

 

BREAKING NEWS: TMac has decided to under go immediate micro-fracture surgery on his other knee.

 

I support it because you are getting tradeable assets back for a guy that may or may not be healthy.

And having 2 $10 million dollar contracts to trade is better than having one big $20+ million dollar contract to trade.

For me it makes sense as a better way to help build the team towards a championship.

DD

 

I don't know... at first when it was signed I thought the contract for him was a steal. He was producing at a decent clip and the contract was like 5 years 55 mil?

He does seem like an Adelman type of player though... should work better in our offense than even Trevor does.

Maybe my perspective is colored by the fact that Martin was injured much of last year... and I hate the idea of working around another "star" player who gets injured.

Though the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of him. He produces more than his salary... is not exactly undersized at 6'7" seems to be coachable and productive. His contract has three years after this one... and trading tmac to the Kings gives them cap space after the season ends.

I'm with thacabbage on not questioning Morey though. If Daryl says its a good deal, I believe it.

Edit: While I was thinking about it and posting Carl posted his response... so I wanted to add his quote in here and respond to it as well. To be honest, that was just my first thought. Martin doesn't seem like a "hard-nosed" type of player... and that's a lot of what we have brought in... Shane.. Luis... Carl... Kyle... all of those guys I would call "tough". Martin doesn't scream a fighter to me.

 

Kevin Martin takes a lot of shots, but he makes a lot more of them as well. T-Mac is a terrible shooter where Martin is a fantastic shooter. I've never heard Martin is a ballstopper so I don't know about that aspect of his game. I would think that Morey would only be interested in him if they believe he can work well in a team concept, which the Rockets have obviously thrived in.

 

you sure about the not going to the basket part? he shoots around 10 free throws a game.

 

Who's to say that this deal isn't just another figment of someone's imagination or rumor.

What I'm thinking is that if Noicioni was all but dumped to the Kings for Miller and Salmons last year (a steal IMO) and he hasn't been playing very well this year, his value is all but lost.

On top of that he is possibly going to have to stand in front of a judge for a DUI charge! That's another hit to him.

If we do end up having something like this go down, I'm sure that we'll have to wait at least another year to build back Andres' value.

 

i see what you are saying, but nocioni certainly is that type of player even though his contract semi-sucks.

 

Exactly. Some people don't understand that it is about the team's overall fg% not one player's fg%. Our offense creates high percentage shots, a single shooter won't help that much. We need someone who can contribute in multiple ways.

Martin doesn't seem like a Morey type of guy because he doesn't help a team in multiple ways. Other than Andersen, most of Morey aquisitions bring some defense or hustle/intensity. Even Andersen was projected to add some post offense, passing, and help on the boards. Martin is the truest definition of a one dimensional player.

 

One injury prone Superstar for a injury prone star?

Plus we really don't need another SF in Nocioni.

The deal makes some sense, but I'm not a fan of taking on those long-term deals.

 

I say forget all this and just wait for the Hornets to implode so we can steal CP3 away from them.

 

Nocioni is overpaid for his inconsistency, and McGrady is not that bad to be traded for someone who did not even make the draft.

Kevin Martin on the other hand is good, but he hasn't shown he can play alongside another superstar. Seems he needs the ball in his hands all the time to be effective, plus he's not a playmaker. Kinda like a poor man's Michael Redd.

No way, I would do this trade if I was the Rox. We don't need anymore soft players or injury prone players on the team.

Golden State on the other hand has so many chips for us to trade with,and McGrady is the sort of player that Nelson wants in his system

 

he's a poor man's brandon roy.

 

that LA game said it all, we can score throughout a game, but when a game gets tight in crunch time, we need a scorer, Martin is only going to help in that area.

Martin fits better than tmac because he's a legit shooter, not just a scorer. Tmac is not a shooter, ariza isn't, even shane isnt. At the 2/3 spot only Budinger is.

and this guy's ability to raw fouls has been underrated in this thread, he's great at this, that means easy points, which would especially needed during those "LA" moments.

 

yes i have a jersey that can be put to good use