Suppose both teams had the same quality coaches. Which group would have a better shot of making the playoffs? Code: [B]Rockets Grizzlies [/B] 0 Aaron Brooks PG 11 Mike Conley PG 7 Kyle Lowry PG 5 Marcus Williams PG 01 Trevor Ariza GF 32 O.J. Mayo SG 31 Shane Battier SF 3 Allen Iverson SG 10 Chase Budinger SF 55 Marko Jaric GF 8 Jermaine Taylor SG 22 Rudy Gay SF 4 Luis Scola PF 2 Trey Gilder F 14 Carl Landry PF 1 DeMarre Carroll F 43 Brian Cook PF 4 Sam Young F 44 Chuck Hayes C 50 Zach Randolph PF 13 David Andersen C 0 Darrell Arthur PF 21 Pops Mensah-Bonsu C 33 Marc Gasol C 15 Joey Dorsey C 15 Hamed Haddadi C 45 Steven Hunter PF 34 Hasheem Thabeet C
As far as pure talent goes, I think Memphis gets the nod. However as far as leadeship, work ethic and team play we are miles ahead of the Griz.
I hate when people vote 1 star just because they can... It's a legitimate questions. All the media types would say, and did say, that the Grizz were close to fighting for that last playoff spot and that we would be 11 12 or 13 in the division. Obviously, they believe that talent overcomes teamwork. Over an 82 game stretch, I will take intelligence talent and teamwork over merely a very talented group every day and twice on Sunday. Once in those playoffs, extraordinary talent is what can get you over the hump.
I want to hear the arguments from fellows such as yourself that the Grizzlies are a better team. Go ahead.
Talent, Grizz no doubt. But that doesn't mean they would win more games. They have players that don't mesh well (AI, Mayo, ZBO) and players that have been known to be low IQ players. I think if they had a coach like JVG they would wn more games then they will this year, but Rockets have a team that is willing to work hard and play within themselves.
The question wasn't which one had more talent.. the question was which one has better personnel with chance of making the playoffs
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=744 [rquoter] The NBA's Usage Experiments by Kevin Pelton Part of the statistical revolution means viewing sports as a science. However, there is a problem with this mindset: There is no laboratory in which we can work. In truth, statistical analysis in sports is more akin to a social science; we interpret the results the league gives us. Sometimes, fortune smiles on us and gives us a useful test case. This year, we have two teams, both in the same division, representing the opposite extremes of a question that has challenged basketball analysts--the importance of shot creation as compared to efficiency. On the night of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Houston Rockets swapped the rights to their lottery pick, Rudy Gay, to the Memphis Grizzlies for Shane Battier. Three years later, those two contrasting players represent their teams. Gay is a scorer with undeniable talent who has struggled to convert his potential into success; Battier is the ultimate role player, a top-tier defender whose intelligence and shooting ability make him an asset on offense despite the difficulty he has creating for himself. This summer, Memphis has built its roster around scorers, bringing in Allen Iverson as a free agent and dealing for Zach Randolph. Add Gay and second-year guard O.J. Mayo and the Grizzlies boast four of the league's top 50 players in usage rate last season. All four players used a higher percentage of their team's possessions than the leading healthy Rockets player, point guard Aaron Brooks. Of Houston's four best shot creators last season, Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming are currently sidelined by injury (Yao will miss the entire season, though McGrady is expected to return at some point), while Ron Artest and Von Wafer departed as free agents. What is left is a team full of role players. ... [/rquoter]
In terms of pure basketball talent, the Grizzlies win by a long shot. They'd go undefeated in pickup games. Unfortunately, in the NBA, you need a grasp of the team concept and understanding of how to move the ball and actually play defense. From that standpoint, the Rockets win ... by a long shot.
No. Some players don't mesh too well. But they have superior individual talent. Switch their boss with Alexander and their coach with Adelman things could turn the corner.
Do you think its accurate to say that certain types of players "mesh" better than others? E.g., It's hard to find a team where Iverson would mesh well. While Battier/Hayes/Scola would mesh almost anywhere. Would you agree with that?
I still don't understand why they would bring in AI or ZBO to a young team that needs veterans like Battier to teach them the importance of hard work and leadership.
Guys like Battier def. mesh on any team. Maybe not the minutes he gets here in Houston, but guys that play elite defense fit into ANY system.
a) For one reason or another people tend to only say players have talent or skill when it's on the offensive end. The rockets are loaded with defensive talent. It is not just hustle, some people just get it. b) Whether or not a player meshes well with another team is tough to compare when discussing different levels of players. You could say Shane meshes with any team but what does that mean? Sure, defense translates anywhere but you could argue that he hasn't ever fit here on the offensive end. thacabbage, isn't joking when he says Ariza is that athletic attacking swingman we've always needed next to Yao and Mcgrady. When Shane scores 6pts when he usually averages 10 no one cares but if an offensive player, someone who averages 20, scores only 12 pts it stands out. c) Are we talking about coaching for this single season or someone who has been there to coach young guys along the way? You could argue that some of the younger players on the Grizzlies would be much better defenders and overall smarter players with better coaching from the start of their careers. There are plenty of coachable young players like Brooks and Landry who haven't had the benefit of being taught by one of the best. d) The Grizzlies are a VERY VERY poorly constructed team. It might have been possible for them to be more successful with some of the poor defending scorers if they mixed in some role players, there's only one basketball so if some of those players aren't scoring they aren't doing anything to help the team. e) Yes, the Rockets have better personnel.
