I'm talking about last year. My point is very few players especially guards carry their teams unless they are Kidd or MJ. Maybe your idea of a top tier guard is higher than every one else . Also Miller had lots of help. He had Schmidts, Antonio Davis, Dale Davis, Mark Jackson, and Jalen Rose.
Guys, Cat has his liabilities for sure, in fact, they have been outlined quite well by TradeCuttino, he has also improved every single year he has been in the NBA. I blame his lack of passing, and playing team ball on his coach. If Rudy really wanted him to pass the ball, he would be yanking him off the floor every time he makes a stupid play, and believe me if that were the case Cuttino would be coming in and out of the game every few seconds. I am anxious to see how both Cat and Francis respond this year, there are NO MORE EXCUSES about being young, or having no front court help etc...this team is loaded....yes it needs time to gel, but this team should be a playoff team....no question. The only things that can stop them from making a run to the playoffs this year are injuries and selfish play. I doubt we will have an injury plagued year, and therefore this is a make or break year for our talented guards. I also think Rudy will have a much shorter leash...at least I hope so. GO ROCKETS !! DaDakota
mercer has improved his defense since his days in orlando. That is one part of his game that was praised. He was a legit all star candidate a couple years ago.
And yet this little guy you profess to be smart and Jordanlike, STILL could not get his team into the playoffs. Hakeem was running and playing great, MoT was healthy, Walt was playing excellent ball, Steve was playing great, and yet the Cat, whom some have paraded as a top flight guard just couldnt get the teamover the hump. Some players earn their stripes the hard way, and have earned star status at one time in their career by grinding out win after win by any means possible. Cuttino just isnt one of them, and doesnt show the discipline to be one. You label him a top guard all you want, he's just another guard in book replaceable by the next player that comes along with a complete game. One last thing, maybe you think im tough on the Cat, but its quite the opposite, when I hear "top guard" I equate top to having a championship mentality. If your speaking Top Stat Guy, then your right, Cat is up there. Sad to say, but there are tons of Jordanlike talent in the league, but 99% lack that one ingredient that I care about, the heart to win.
ENOUGH!!!! damn, tradecuttino, you are one silly, childish, piddlin little muth@fuker! damn! i mean everyone is providing stonecold fact in the form of statistics, but your triflin' ass is just like a child, "but i think he really sucks!!" i mean, just admit it, cat is a damn good sg. for everytime you say cat makes boneheaded plays, there are 5 or 6 other plays that are just AWSOME! and as far as passing, DAMN!!! who tha *** is he s'posed to pass to? the rookies or the 3rd string scrubs we had to start last season? damn, countless times he'd pass off (on his brokeass ankles no doubt) to tmo or oscar and BRICK, so don't play that sht fool. just quit, cat is good, and if healthy, the rocks will do well this year. your argument is all opinion and is factless. how old are you anyway?
Cat, I agree with your post. I do. I think it's stupid to want to bench Mobley. But I think it's kind of unfair to compare his numbers with Finley's. First of all, Finley would average more rebounds if he was playing with our frontcourt. Dirk and 'Frentz suck up a lot of boards when compared to our frontcourt. Then you also have to consider that Finley has averaged 4.8 assists over his last four seasons. He was actually injured for quite awhile this season, and that's new to him. His game wasn't really back until about 15 games after his injury. 3.3 assists isn't the rule, it's the exception. Then you have to consider that Finley is one of the better one-on-one defenders in the league, and Cuttino is just average (he's not as bad as some make out, but he's not above average).
1. Fact: Dream missed half the season that year only playing in 44 games. He also missed critical portions of the season at the end with the return of his blood clots. Don't confuse the nice string of games he had after the all star break as having a great season. 2. Fact: Once again this is a false statement. MoT started the season injured and finished the season very injured. During the middle of the season he played out of position at the 5 spot due to Dream, Cato and Collier all being hurt at the same time. Mo played 69 games that year and all in the last quarter of the season were on two very sore achilles. I saw Mo in person during the last game against Dallas that year and the pain on his face was obvious. 3. Fact: Once again this is a completely false statement. Walt was playing horrible which is why Shandon was moved to the 3 and Cat was inserted into the starting rotation at the 2. In 72 games that year Walt avg'd 8 pts a game and shot 39 % from the field. 4. I guess you could turn that quote around to say that Cat was playing great and yet Steve just couldn't get the team over the hump. See how it works? The fact is that Cat came off of the bench for much of that year routinely leading the Rockets in scoring in the 4th quarter and he was a very big part of the Rockets run in the second half of the season that helped the Rockets get to 45 wins. Cat was almost unstoppable in some of those games during the 4th quarter. 5. Would you say that Michael Finley is one of them? I would and I think that Cat is just as good or better than Finley. But that is just my opinion lets look at the facts that seem to be important to you, wins and losses. MF won a total of 103 games in his first 4 years with Dallas or a total of about 25 games a year. Keep in mind that MF was suppose to be the man for that team. Now look at Cat's first four years, 138 wins or about 37 a year. Cat has been to the play off’s but not MF in his first 4 years with Dallas. Something else to consider is that Cat is not being asked to lead this team, that responsibility is Steve's. BTW I have seen a lot of MF and when his jumper is not falling he is usually a burden to his team. When Cats jumper is not falling he finds other ways to score and he gets to the foul line a whole lot more than MF. Cat loves to take the ball to the basket and MF hates to do that. Part of becoming a play off or championship caliber team is learning to win and that is a job that has to be done as a team not as an individual so I don't see how anyone can lay the blame at Cats feet especially sense he is not the leader of this team and since he could not control the large amount of injuries that we have had during the past few years. I hope no one is expecting the Cat to be MJ and lead this team all by him self. I'm sure not but he is all star caliber and I do expect him to be a very important piece in turning the Rockets back into a championship contender. I can't tell you how many times I wished the Rockets had a guard like Cat in the 80's when Dream was in his prime. Now we have one. One last thing. Cat has easily been this teams most consistent player over the last 3 years. Period.
I disagree with most of your opinions. However I also think Mobley should be starting and I do think he is definitely a starting SG in the NBA. However, I think that unless he improves his all around game than he shouldn't be a starting SG on a contending team. I think that is a fair assumption.
So if the Rockets dont make the playoffs, its Cat's fault? There is no one else to blame? Name some players that have "earned star status at one time in their career by grinding out win after win by any means possible".
Yep, I guess you'll never be convinced of the fact that Cuttino is a top 10 SG. He definitely needs improvement and can still learn alot, but when the surrounding players are healthy and in rhythm, everything will seem better. TheCat--Excellent post, agree with everything Also about Mercer...Even if his stats were similar, if you've actually seen both players play, there is a big difference between the two. Mercer is a good player, but Cuttino is just much more of an offensive threat. He scores in more versatile ways and is more consistent...
Props to "The Cat" for a very good post. I am a Mobely fan. That being said, please recall that: 1) Cuttino Mobley came to camp in game shape last season. He was ready to play and dedicated his off season at West Side playing against other High caliber NBA players to be ready. - Nick the Quick and Sam Cassell along with others trained in the off season at West side. I respect Cuttino for being ready. 2) You don't hear about off court issues with Cuttino- I like his maturity. No distractions.. 3) Mobely has heart- he wants to win. -Anyone remember the lackadaisacal attitude by Robert Horry in the '96 playoffs against Seattle? - barely running up and down the court during a playoff game. I wish we could bottle up Mobely's enthusiasm and give it to Cato. 4) Cuttino Mobely is a bargain - he is giving the team a lot for the dollar. We are so lucky. I hope Cuttino chooses to stay with the Rockets - some of the fans strike me as ingrates and disrespect him....
I really think Cuttino IS a pretty good all-around player...If not, I'd like to see Objective, (not subjective) facts which prove he isn't.
Fact: Dream missed half the season that year only playing in 44 games. He also missed critical portions of the season at the end with the return of his blood clots. Don't confuse the nice string of games he had after the all star break as having a great season. WRONG, Hakeem played in 58 games that year. And that nice little string of wins was the difference in the team pulling over the 500 hump. Fact: Once again this is a false statement. MoT started the season injured and finished the season very injured. During the middle of the season he played out of position at the 5 spot due to Dream, Cato and Collier all being hurt at the same time. Mo played 69 games that year and all in the last quarter of the season were on two very sore achilles. I saw Mo in person during the last game against Dallas that year and the pain on his face was obvious. So MoT missed 13 games, 10 less than Cuttino. So I'm guessing your objective is tear down every Rocket and promote The Cat as the guard that carried this team to a 45 win season all by his lonesome. Amazing! Fact: Once again this is a completely false statement. Walt was playing horrible which is why Shandon was moved to the 3 and Cat was inserted into the starting rotation at the 2. In 72 games that year Walt avg'd 8 pts a game and shot 39 % from the field. Whether I throw in Shandon name or Walts, what does it matter? The wins were the result of Cuttino right? I guess you could turn that quote around to say that Cat was playing great and yet Steve just couldn't get the team over the hump. See how it works? The fact is that Cat came off of the bench for much of that year routinely leading the Rockets in scoring in the 4th quarter and he was a very big part of the Rockets run in the second half of the season that helped the Rockets get to 45 wins. Cat was almost unstoppable in some of those games during the 4th quarter. And if you read my Steve posts, I give him the same noise that I give Cat. So your going to have to find contradicting posts with someone else. And if you even read my earlier posts in this thread, I gave Cat credit for being a good ISO player. Now with the zone defense, he's going to have to be a good TEAM PLAYER. Would you say that Michael Finley is one of them? I would and I think that Cat is just as good or better than Finley. But that is just my opinion lets look at the facts that seem to be important to you, wins and losses. MF won a total of 103 games in his first 4 years with Dallas or a total of about 25 games a year. Keep in mind that MF was suppose to be the man for that team. Now look at Cat's first four years, 138 wins or about 37 a year. Cat has been to the play off?s but not MF in his first 4 years with Dallas. No, I don't consider Finley a superstar. He is a good player, but has yet to win squat. Start comparing Cat to guards that rountinely make the playoffs. Noone is laying the blame at the Cat's feet so long as you stop defining Cat as a super star. The minute the Cat wants the title of superstar branded on him, then he needs to AT LEAST deliver some playoff appearances.... otherwise he's just a decent player sitting at home like the others in the league, not good enough to sack up. And to go back to the orginal point in the post, there are changes Cat will have to make in hs game to become this elite player you already feel he is. So this whole debate boils down to the following. Is Cat a elite player? If not, then why? If yes, then how do you define a elite player?
Micheal Jordan's first 4 years resulted in squat in the playoffs as well... Cuttino is a near-elite status as a player. Why isn't he elite? Why isn't every player elite?...If he isn't elite, what then? I think it's practical to say the 2 or 3 best at each position rounds out what I consider "elite" players...So that results in 10 to 15 players across the league who are "elite" in my book...I like what he brings to the table. I easily place him in the top 10 best SG's, but realistically the 5th or 6th best...and guess what? he improves every year, so he could crack the top 3 next season...I love his "fire"...I love the fact he is willing to take the shot...I love the rebounding, and the fear I see in the eyes of those trying to guard him... He is plain and simple, a fun and throwback type player...
My objective/(slightly opinionated... well okay.... opinionated) view of Cuttino Mobley from a basketball perspective: What he excels at: 1-on-1 play - His "cat-like" first step (when healthy) along with his ability to shoot on a defender with a good arch/arc on his shot causes defenders "migranes". It is most definitely hard to keep up with a lefthanded player as accurate as Cat. When the shot-clock is running low, it is often a good option to dish off to Cat to try something. Reasons why his 1-on-1 play is nearly flawless- His Shot - Has nearly perfect form. It has a great arch/arc, is often nothing but net, is straight, is quick, can be used off of a jumpshot, and has a good percentage considering that most of his shots are "impossible" or "lucky" to most. With shooters as good as Cuttino, it really doesn't matter where he shoots, it is often a "good shot" just for the fact that it left his hands and not someone else's. Finishing on the layup- Although others may disagree, he has a solid finish on the layup, whether it is ended in a fingeroll, or a dunk. What he is mediocre at: Defense. As most would agree, Cuttino's defense is average. That is fine. We hope for it to get better, but at the same time hope that the overall team defense (along with Cuttino's) may improve overall. Now... there is no question about Cuttino's skill level. He can do what few in this league seem to have, the killer shot along with a quick first step. However, at the same time Every player is taken with the good AND bad in mind, and Cuttino has his share of weaknesses. Cuttino's weaknesses: Mentality. This problem is everywhere in the league today, and I for one am not surprised Cuttino shares it. At the same time, realizing that Cat was a second round #44 pick who had to literally shoot his way into a solid starter spot with the rockets makes this all the more reasonable. What was wrong with his mentality this last year- 1) His shoot first, pass later mentality aka black hole. Although understandable due to his teammates during games, Cat has not learned how to incorporate his team into his offensive schemes, whether it be through a pick and roll or a pass to a cutter. This ended up becoming a more serious problem when he began becoming predictable. All a defender had to do was to funnel the ball towards Cat, and then wait for the shot, knowing a pass to be a rare sight. 2) His non-confidence in his teammates which translates to a lack of respect. Regardless of how bad your teammates are, they will never hit their ceiling of potential without some involvement in the game. Therefore, the player who understands this will first do enough to establish his game, then incorporate others for the sake of team chemistry. Also, having the label of "ballhog" or "blackhole" often hurts chemistry. The above point I feel will be moot this upcoming season, unless similar play continues due to the incoming talent we will now have with an upgraded griffin, huge ming, and snackbar. His Maturity(similarly related). This is still Cat's 4th year, and he still has PLENTY of time to work on this aspect of his game. However, it is clearly obvious as when he tells the opposing team's defender that he is going to shoot the last shot and then misses (last year against the Pacers)that this is an area he needs to work on. Final Weakness- He must have the ball in his hands to be effective. Of course several players do, and this is not a severe weakness. Conclusion: Cuttino Mobley is JUST FINE. As a NBA player, he has all the tools to possibly become the all-star we all want him to be. However, he still has a ways to go. His mentality and maturity can be frustrating at times, yet we all know that he still has the time and the dedication to become a great player and hopefully a great team player. I for one will wait and see this season, upon when I will make another judgement based on his play.
Not in the East, he wasn't. He's only been out of Orlando for two seasons and has seen his role go from overpaid scorer to overpaid bench warmer. The only reason anyone can give him credit for his defense is because the Pacers stuck him on Jason Kidd in their first round matchup this year, using his 5-6" height advantage to try to force Jason Kidd to give up the ball. Didn't work too well, as evidenced by the Nets continuing on pastthe Pacers and Kidd putting up good numbers nonetheless.
