There is no evidence that Gay, Brewer, Battier, or Ariza are anything but complimentary players. Roy is another story. Nevertheless, if you are team that has two young, max players who are both on the shelf, it doesn't matter. None of the above would make the Rockets a contender without Yao and McGrady. End of story.
If we had lost to denver, we would have been in a three way tie for 6th. That means we could have picked anywher 6-8.
Gay is just plain overated... look at Hollingers write up. He would probably even be worse with us since JVG was adamant about not developing youngsters. The trade was the right move. 2008-09 season: Gay took a step backward in his third season, probably so he could launch another contested 18-foot fadeaway, and he's well on his way to becoming one of the league's most overrated players. He continually settled for long J's and mailed it in on defense, and one wonders if the nightly beatings in Memphis sucked the competitive juices out of him. Gay also has developed some serious tunnel vision at the offensive end. Three different times he took more than 20 shots without a single assist; for the year he had the worst pure point rating among small forwards. He assisted on only 7.7% of his possessions, a worse rate than Darko Milicic's or Darrell Arthur's, but the real bizarre part is all the turnovers. For a guy who didn't pass the ball and mostly took 20-footers, Gay experienced an awful lot of trouble keeping the ball -- his turnover rate rated 50th among small forwards. More than half his shots were jumpers, and while he shoots well from outside, there was little chance of him replicating his splendid 2007-08 percentage on long 2s (45.4 percent). He didn't, dropping to 41.0 percent. While he hit a respectable 35.1 percent of his 3s, all those long 2s left him with an ordinary true shooting percentage. Scouting report: Gay is 6-9 with long arms and good leaping ability, so he should be an excellent defensive player. Instead, he's terrible, as his effort level fails to rival his talent level. His size grants him an edge in challenging shots and he'll pick up blocks and steals. However, he tends to give up as soon as he hits a screen, especially off the ball, and opponents beat him off the dribble much more easily than one would expect. Additionally, he's an unmotivated help defender who usually just hangs out on the weak side. The proof is in the pudding: The Grizzlies allowed 9.3 points more per 100 possessions with him on the court, even worse than his 8.0 differential from a year earlier. Offensively, Gay puts the "I" in "isolation," facing up on the left side and shooting come hell or high water. He has a high-arching shot that he can make off the dribble or off the catch, especially going to his right. His length means he can get the shot off against nearly anyone, but that can be a curse too -- he'll force it early in the clock instead of looking for better opportunities. Finally, Gay exhibits one of the worst cases of dribble blindness in league annals and only passes as a last resort. The result is that opponents feel free to leave their man and steal the ball whenever Gay heads into traffic. 2009-10 outlook: Well, it should be an exciting race between Gay and Zach Randolph to see who can lead the team in 20-point, zero-assist performances. The winner will almost certainly lead the league too. But maybe Gay will surprise us. He is only 23 and his game is still developing, plus he doesn't have a bad reputation in other respects. Incremental improvement in shot selection and an extra pass here and there would make his offensive game much more palatable, and perhaps the new coaching staff will get more out of him on the defensive end too. That said, last season set a dangerous precedent, and one hopes it isn't the start of a slippery slope to mediocrity. It would waste a tremendous talent.
the win against denver moved us from a 3 way tie for 6th to a tie for 8th. Even if we lost that game, we could have picked 6, 7, or 8. The odds are we wouldn't have had the chance to draft Roy anyway.
Do u think hollinger watches games or just crunch numbers? I ask u the same, do u watch the games or do u look at the box scores? Going to a young team and having to be the man vs going to a veteran squad and being a 3rd fiddle is huge. The looks he would get are different as well as his place in the offense. Since ur into stats and numbers, explaiin how the grizz with shane and gasol won 22 and 23 games and was one of the worse defensive teams in the league to by the 3rd yr with hubie brown being a top 5 defensive team? While ur at it, since uv been a fan since 92, 03 should be in your wheelhouse. Explain how the rockets came from the bottom defensively to the top by merely changing 1 componet? Point is when u have a young team and young players, coaching makes a huge difference. Whereas some will say jvg wouldn't have never played rudy because he didn't play defense, i'm one that believe jvg could do wonders for a guy like rudy defensively. Not only that, luther head played a lot as a rokkie and he could guard 0. We can stay on the ring and for every stat u bring up, I can sight the - per shane has had in the playoffs or the - per he has this early in the season. Just like I've said before, it didn't have to be rudy, it couldve been ronnie brewer.
The acquisition of Gasol was an admission that Kobe, Odom and Bynum were not enough. The acqusition of Artest was an admmission that Kobe Odom, Bynum and Gasol were not enough. Teams are always after talent, addition of new talent is no indictment of existin talent.
Coaching matters no doubt, that´s why peoeple spend good money hiring them. But that doesn´t mean players don´t matter. ç One part of the Grizz improving has to do with Hubie Brown, but he took over 8 games into the 02-03 season and the Grizzlies still finished the year winning 28 games, so he wasn´t magical or anything. One part of it is the young players like Gasol and Battier, you know, ¨developed¨their basketball skills and got better. They also added pieces like Mike Miller (late 02-03 season addition) and others. As for the Rockets, the team was not in the ¨bottom¨defensively during Rudy T´s last season (so stop slandering him), they were right about average (14th). They were toward the top the next season. JVG helped no doubt (and part of it was the players he used were different... I think they started the twin tower combo of Yao and Cato quite a bit, and the mistake prone Griffin was off the team). Coaching doesn´t explain everything... Adelman has had top defensive teams and teams that didn´t do so well defensively, depending on who was on the team, where they are physically and mentally, etc. About Ronnie Brewer... what exaclty would he be giving the Rockets that Ariza doesn´t give them now? It seems to me he is an atheletic (and pretty smart) role player who knows how to live off of Sloan´s system (and Deron Williams). We´ve seen his type before, no?
I may have assumed you meant 3 stars, but i'm not distorting the foundation of your comment, which was it took them "too long" to realize they needed a 3rd scorer and that by the time they realized it Yao and tracy were gone (meaning the last two years): And i replied that they went out, the same summer they got shane, and acquired bonzi, even though at the time a "third scorer" was simply a guy in the 12-15 ppg range, which Rafer, shane, and Bonzi were definitely capable of. If you want to blame shane for not embracing that role, bonzi for flaking out, or Rafer for not being more efficient, then fine, those are all valid accusations, but don't accuse the organization of sitting on their butts not trying to find offensive help from 2006 until when tmac and yao went out because they tried, and did, every single offseason since AND during the season most of the time as well. I forgot to mention the pistons in my reply, but had mentioned them earlier in thsi thread. They weren't the norm. they played great D, and had 4 recognizable names. Although you'd think the more the better, history has shown that's not always the case. The pistons were a rare team at the time who's "big names" actually fit together. At the time of their first ring in 03-04, they weren't as developed offensively, averaging only 90 pts a game, no one scoring above 20 ppg. The following year in 04-05, only 93 a game, again no one scoring above 20ppg and they lost to the Spurs in the Finals. In 05-06 is when they stepped up their offense, had more guys scoring, but they also lost to Miami. So then in 05-06, prior to the Gay trade, it was not evident the league was moving in this direction of having 3 or 4 "big names". Detroit managed to win it one year, but had since lost out to teams built more similarly to Houston (spurs and miami). No reason for Houston to thinktheir plans wouldn't work, at the time. It wasnt evident until the following season, after they got shane, and that's when the team really started making moves for their offense immediately, starting with the firing of JVG. So no, it didn't take them that long actually. The players they got, who were capable, just didn't work out and when they finally found some that would (landry, scola, brooks, etc), injuries struck. Thats just terrible luck, but as fans we always want to find something or someone to blame, and luck doesn't have forum (well it probably does, but you get my point).
and if the deal never comes? Then we're here talking about how Gay was redundant, how they should have been more pro-active, how they never had a defensive stopper on the perimeter, etc. The front office is damned either way. It's the nature of fans. I stopped thinking that way a long time ago because then you'll never understand what's going on and pull your hair out. Just eveluate the moves and try to find why they were done and see what the teams point of view was/is. Its like fans who want to cut up this roster to find a starting center or more scoring. they'll never understand why it's not being done because they don't stop and realize the team's plans, which are to still build around Yao and wait for him to be healthy next year.
There's a reason why Rudy Gay slipped to #8. There were questions about him living up to his potential. Questions about his mentality. Stromile Swift 2.0 was a possibility here. Who knows where Gay would have ended up if Houston didn't pick him. Hindsight is 20/20, but back then Gay wasn't as valuable as fans would like to think, the hype of what he could become was what was high. Let's not forget Jerry West's prime target was actually Morrison that year, who seemed to be more of a sure thing and not just hype. He got lucky. We didn't. End of story.
Or Reddick, or thabo, or carney, and so on. Yet you only mention Gay and Brewer? Why? It's not because they're the same kind of player. It's because theyre the two most succesful wings of that first round, maybe the entire draft. If scoring was what we desperately needed then Reddick makes more sense back then, than Brewer. A lot more sense, but you and many others don't look at it that way because you know how it all turned out years later and you're using that knowledge to evaluate the trade. Hindsight is 20/20, i can't stress that enough.
People need to stop playing the "what if" game especially on this matter since it has been discussed to death. Coaches are supposed to try to win games. Players are supposed to try to win games. How can you put everything on JVG. What about the players who knew winning that game hurt their chances of drafting someone better next year. Shouldnt everyone who grabbed a rebound, made a shot, or played hard defense be blamed as much as JVG? The draft is a crap shoot. Ask Portland. They greatly benefit from landing Aldridge and Roy that year, and then botch the Oden Durant thing the following year. Anyone that thinks Oden is still the better pick is crazy cuz Roy/Durant could be a PG/SG or SG/SF combo that would be devastating. Dig even further and you see that the Celtics basically traded what turned into Brandon Roy for Sebastian Telfair. That is one of the worst trades in history. A year later the Celts are champs because of what they get in a draft day trade. At the end of the day, the Rox could have had Rudy Gay or Rajon Rondo. They also could have ended up with Saer Sene, Patrick O'Bryant or a bunch of other no names who arent in the league anymore. Imagine if our management made a mistake like drafting Shelden Williams, or Adam Morrison like the Hawks and Bobcats did that year and you will be thankful we have Battier and dumped Swift.
Hmm, according to this, Clutch had Rudy Gay at number one on the Rockets board, ahead of Brandon Roy. He had this to say about Gay: In his more detailed profile of Gay, he goes on to say: According to this information, it seems that if the Rockets were willing to trade Gay for Battier, there's a pretty good chance they were willing to trade Roy for Battier too. Not necessarily saying they rated Gay higher than Roy, but it's not like Roy was the consensus number 1 pick and Gay was expected to go undrafted.
No offense to Clutch, but since when does he work for the Rockets? As far as i know he's not an NBA scout or front office guy. He had who HE thought was the rockets best target ranked as #1. Like i said, we're never going to understand what went on if we look at the trade through everyone else's POV except for the Rockets' front office. They went ahead with their plans, not yours, not mine, not Clutch's. Based on their plans, they made the right moves, or i should say, the moves that made sense. Now it doesnt make sense. Now we know Gay turned out well. Now we know the league changed. Now we can go back and dig up every piece on Gay becoming a star and say "look it was there all along", but you know what? there's several pieces also saying Morrison would be one, and Carney would be one, and Reddick would be one, but we won't dig those up will we? Why? Because now we know they won't be, thus hindsight is, yes, 20/20! And i think it's obvious i didn't mean Gay would go undrafted when i said "who knows where he would have ended up". i meant he could have dropped closer to 10, maybe 11 or 12. So much valuable is attached to Gay because "oh he was a number EIGHT, so that's very valuable", but the number of a pick doesn't hold a fixed value from draft to draft, which some fail to realize. It doesn't even hold a fixed value within a draft. Some years an eight pick is nothing to jump for joy about, other years you're taking all kinds of phone calls. Now that eight pick who turned out to be Gay is more valuable than it was back then, since he wasn't a lock to succeed. On the other hand, the third pick that year, who was morrison and many said he was a future superstar, is a lot less more valuable now than it was back then. Imagine if Houston had the 3rd pick that year, and traded Morrison for Shane. Hell would have broken loose, at least until now when everyone would be praising Houston for "winning" the deal. Hindsight...
You are supposed to look forward. We fared well with Battier. Memphis did not with Gay but it's not his fault.
well at least he claimed that we would blow out the blazers when everybody else was stepping on our throats. that's was some decent support
Guys, do you have any new pictures of him? cuz i saw his new hairstyle recently, and it looks good. Im talking about the racing stripes is on the back of his head and theres 3 stripes lol. it looks really cool. Have any pictures?
