Boxer Bernard Hopkins says MMA is gay porno, not a sport

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Great explanation verse. I tried saying this but somehow it got derailed into a "Mike Tyson's prime is non existent" argument which is completely illogical.

 

I am probably not the best to talk about the MMA because frankly the only matches I've seen are the occassional macthes that were on spike tv and some of the Kimbo Slice fights.

But can somebody tell me what are some of the legendary fights from this sport. I thought about buying ufc 104 last night but what stopped me was the quickness of the bouts. I figured that I'd see 20 minutes worth of build up and 1 minute worth of a fight. In boxing, they call that a dive in big ppu fights, but in mma this is consided animalistic. I find that to be very interesting, that if a fight goes on for the whole (is it 3 rounds?) then it is a boring fight.

By contrast, I did buy Latin Fury 12 and I saw possibly the greatest "live" fight I've ever seen in Juanma v. Matgwa. The appeal of a fight like that is to see two guys pounding each other, round after round and with the ufc I doubt I would ever see such a fight. Am I correct on any of this?

 

If Tyson trained in MMA he would have been unstoppable, but with just boxing skills he would have to catch his opponent coming in -- otherwise he would get taken down and submitted. Had Tyson or any other elite boxer started training for MMA at a young age they would dominate most UFC guys. But as I mentioned in a previous post -- why would they deal with all that grueling (grappling) training when the big money is in boxing. Few elite world class fighters are going to choose MMA over boxing.

Looking at the last big heavyweight championship Lesnar 5-2 ex-pro wrestler vs. a 46 year old 16-10 Couture seems ridiculous. If the Klitschko brothers had trained MMA instead of boxing they would destroy anyone in the UFC heavyweight division.

Throw in having to deal with Dana White and the terrible pay (Frank Mir 60,000 2nd fight vs. Lesnar) and it's no wonder the elite athletes stay away from MMA.

 

Basically you're saying that if a champion like Klitscho or Tyson trained in MMA at a very young age, they would dominate MMA events. So the argument of MMA vs Boxing favor goes to MMA because being a great boxer is a strong set of skill but if those fighters can master all other types of fighting, they would obliterate the competition.

 

^The point is more that elite fighters are going to choose boxing over MMA because there is a lot more money and the ground training involved in MMA is a major negative to a lot of guys.

 

The more I think about it, the more disadvantages I see for the MMAer. As much as boxers may be "one-dimensional" as far as the tools at his disposal (hands only), in a fight such as we are discussing, the MMAer is equally rendered one-dimensional, if not moreso. In such a fight, the MMAer really only has one way to truly "engage" the fight and that is to go for the shoot...a move which I pointed out earlier, has an OBVIOUS flaw vs a countering pinpoint pro boxer. Everything else the MMAer has at his disposal, pre-shoot, is predicated on being a standup battle. I can't believe any rational person would pick the MMAer in a standup situation. So, in essence MMAers are basing their victory on the chance that they can shoot in without getting countered (and probably KTFO-ed) by a pinpoint, trained power pugilist?

If I'm in Vegas, I'm taking those odds. Sure, the MMAer can feignt and has the option of shooting in left or right, but either way he's going to have to just risk it that he can either not get hit (unlikely) or could withstand the punch (unwise).

I had this convo with a good friend of mine who IS an MMA fighter. His response was pretty simple. His tactic would be to play the counterpuncher, waiting for the boxer to engage, then slip the punch and shoot or parry the punch, try to break the boxer's arm/wrist, and try to shoot. His only other tactic...HIS ONLY OTHER TACTIC...would be to just absorb the blow, bullrush in for the shoot, and try to end it on the ground as quickly as possible. We found something else out that (I don't think) has been discussed in this entire thread: In close quarters, as a battle of fists, the boxer still has a huge advantage. As a boxer (which I have done some training in), you are trained to fight "in" also. So the MMAer would be shooting solely for the purpose of grappling submission...not at all for on the ground hand fighting (full/half mounts where the opponent's hand are often free).

In all, an MMAer has a chance against a premier boxer, as long as that boxer doesn't possess Tysonic or (yikes!) Rocky Marciano type power (Marciano was THE hardest puncher EVER. More KTFOs...literally unconscious...than anyone in history). Those types has the pinpoint accuracy and strength to make the fight against an MMAer completely lopsided. As a frame of reference, it takes approx 300psi to knock a man out. The average Joe Six Pack over 200 lb guy can hit that mark with good technique, leverage, etc., but typically doesn't go too far past it. Marciano was recorded at well over 1000psi (ouch!!). Tyson just shy of the mark. Foreman, I believe, at the 1000psi mark, as well. That type of power is truly rare and the reason why those are "once-in-a-generation" type boxers. To suggest an MMAer could withstand that kind of punch while willfully exposing his face to it is, well, wishful thinking at best.

 

My point being boxers attract the best athletes because of the money. If fedor had the skills to be a top 10 heavyweight, he would because the money is much better.

If you let an elite boxer train in the ground as long as grapplers such as Brock and Fedor train at standup, the boxer will win every time. Because the elite boxers are better athletes and it takes a lot longer to become a good stand up fighter.

 

Money don't make a fighter, it's his ability to out wit out perform his opponent like chess... From a business standpoint, Boxing is ahead of MMA for now. But a fighter who fights to barely scrap the table off to make ends meet is a warrior.

 

I hate getting into this, but if an MMAist and a boxer fought in an MMA fight, all of you are delusional if you think the boxer would win. There are other ways to take guys down besides shooting for a wrestling style double leg takedown. All the MMAist has to do is get his hands on him. He can shoot for double and single legs, judo throws from the clinch, he can pull guard or if skilled enough flying armbars or triangles.

And of course an MMAist vs. a boxer in a boxing match would get crushed, except maybe Anderson Silva who would at least look serviceable.

 

Actually, Fedor does MMA because he didnt take boxing as a kid, he took Sambo as a child, same with his brother and they both do MMA. You cant say, OMG BOXERS GET MORE MONEY IF DEY R GR8. N IF FEDOR WUZ G00D HE'D BE BOXING. Thats ignorant to say and you really cant compare who is more talented at what they do.

 

I think the money is a great point about attracting athletes. Consider that there are several great NCAA track stars who go on to play NFL football rather than staying with track because there is so much more money it it.

Still I wouldn't necessarily say that the top MMA athletes are inferior than professional boxers and I especially wouldn't say that ground fighting is easier than stand up fighting. There are different skill sets to both and while you might see a much larger talent pool in MMA if it had the same money as top level pro-boxing I don't think that would translate immediately to the best pro-boxers dominating MMA.

 

I love how Im mentioning a fighter who is currently doing MMA and you are mentioning the Tyson of 300 years ago, who has been retired. I dont care if Mike Tyson was some kind of beast in his prime, his skills are gone, hes done, nobody cares. We dont care what kind of skill boxing takes. MMA is not a one-dimensional combat system and its fun to see people go at it without being limited in a specific area. MMA is growing, Boxing is dying.

 

And you make that sound so easy...as if it's an easy accomplishment to get through the boxer's "strike zone" in order to get in close. How do you propose traversing the "strike zone" without taking a clean shot from a person with one punch KO power?

 

Of the boxers I named, are they all retired? If your objective is to blindly cheerlead and promote MMA, that's fine. I really don't have a problem with it, as in the end it's entertainment and like Bernard, I don't care to criticize your entertainment choices.

My subject matter was pitting the boxer vs MMAer. Time period/era really isn't tantamount to the conversation. So, if you don't know who I'm talking about in my previous post that you attempted to refute with "yea, yea MMA" "boxing sucks" pearls of wisdom, feel free bow out gracefully.

Always remember, Yugo, light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear to be bright until they open their mouths. Right now, you're "suspect".

 

To expand on rocketjudoka's point, there have been quite a few successful fighters from K1 that have transitioned to MMA. BUT despite being far superior in striking compared to those that started out as grapplers, even after years of training, they aren't dominating. Someone like cro-cop (K1 fighter) over the years gotten really good at avoiding takedowns, but in a MMA fight if at least one of the fighters wants to take it to the ground it's almost impossible to prevent it for the whole fight.

I think boxers with enough training can do well in MMA, as will any good athlete with enough training, but it doesn't mean they will dominate MMA just because they can dominate boxing. Grappling is a different skill set, and some are better than others. If you look at Fedor's fights, he has an uncanny ability to get top position on the ground even against other seasoned grapplers.

 

Fedor isn't even fighting in the best organization. And people want to talk about Boxing not giving boxing fans what they want? FUNNY. That's like The Rock wrestling in TNA or Michael Jordan playing in Euroleague. Nice going, Dana.

 

I personally think Wanderlei Silva's old fights in Pride were some of the most exciting. Knees to the head, stomps to the head (illegal in UFC), and some blood splattering thrown in too. I think you would like

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Wanderlei was my favorite MMA fighter. I watched both of his Rampage beatdowns.

It's sad to see him washed up now.