Chuck has been a good interior passer for a while now, and has been outlet passing well this pre-season, so you should expect a lot of great passing out of him. We should have some videos of it this season!
he is covering centers with his stength, but remember - Chuck will be the second shortest Rocket out there - the SG to PF positions all range from about 6'8" to 6'9" - so guys like Ariza will have to step up on the glass
Part? Unseld played with the Bullets from 68-81. Hayes played with the Bullets from 72-81. The Bullets made the Finals in three of the years they played together (75, 78, 79) and won the championship in 78. Mind you, taking nothing away from Unseld, deservably a HOF and 50 greatest players of all time, and it is a stretch to say Chuck Hayes is close to Unseld in his abilities, but you have to acknowledge that Unseld also played alongside a HOF and one of the NBA's 50 best players. Chuck Hayes won't be able to make the same claim (at least this season).
Unseld was a good, good ballplayer with great basketball smarts. I love Chuck, and I understand the comparison, but ... Wayne Embry also comes to mind. Whom am I forgetting? BTW - as for height, Russ gave up 4-6" to Wilt; Cowens 6" to Kareem and so on. You can't forget the height - or neglect the competent altitude challenged.
I think overall that Chuck has shown how important he is to this team. They don't need him to score a lot but they need him to convert on the offensive end when the opportunity presents it's self. Last night was a great example. He made some really good plays downlow in which he was able to convert for points. His passing and his overall basketball IQ is very high and it will help the Rockets this year. You guys also have to remember how many rebounds does Chuck help tip to the other players... He does this a lot with boxing out and positioning himself in the low post. I think the Rockets will see if the Chuck experiment at Center will work once the Rockets play the Blazers. Oden and Aldridge will be starting in that game and we all know how much Scola struggles against Aldridge. I think you'll see Scola guarding Oden...
Yes, part. Not to take anything away from Elvin (I'm a huge fan of his and recall listening to the Game of the Century at a drive-in movie in Houston, when he led UH to one of the biggest upsets in basketball history, pissing off the chick I was with in the process!), but Unseld was both Rookie of the Year and MVP the same season, the only other player to match that feat being Wilt Chamberlain. He was an All Star 3 out of the 4 seasons he played with the Bullets before Hayes was drafted. The Bullets made it to the Finals in '70-'71, without Elvin. Now you might understand why I disagreed with you. And Chuck is most definitely not Wes Unseld as a player, but the comparison is not a bad one, IMO.
Unseld was strong and steady and got rebounds I couldn't believe he got. However, he was an exception for his era just as Charles Barkley was an exception as a PF in his era. Barkley claimed 6-6 was really was 6-4. Both were amazing players (Barkley more so than Unseld) despite being height challenged. Unfortunately, Chuck Hayes just isn't "up" for comparison.
I also forgot about Dave Cowens, a "6-9" center on the Boston Celtics. He was a fierce competitor and, though small for his position, he played with the best of them. Again, Chuck Hayes just isn't in his league.
If there's one thing that Wes Unseld did very well that Chuck struggles with, what would it be? The one thing that comes to mind for me is not fouling (though, undoubtedly, Unseld was a superior, gifted passer). On the other hand, without really know the type of defensive player Unseld was, or the particular characteristics of the league he played in, its hard to put the personal fouls in proper context. Hayes does have double the rate of steals, and slightly more blocks, per defensive possession. That suggests he's more active in trying to strip the ball away from opponents, which would contribute to a higher foul rate. Another question I had was whether bigs just foul more often today than they did back then (due to a difference in defensive schemes, more attacking offenses, or whatever). I looked at the weighted average of fouls/36min (again, pace-adjusted) for Cs playing 1000 minutes. For 75-79, it turned out to be only 3.5, while from 05-09 it was 4.0.
I don't have a stat to back it up, but my guess is that 5's got away with much more contact back then. Having seen more games in the 1980's than in the '70's, I wonder what the #'s are for that decade. Also had one less ref to worry about. Want to add that it's a very interesting thread, durvasa. Nice idea. Some of this I haven't thought about in years.
I think Chuck Hayes is 6'7, not 6'5! Height is an interesting concept amongst the long-limbed NBA athletes. With Chuck's long arms, he's "effectively" 2 inches taller than Landry (Hayes has an 8'8.5 standing reach, Landry 8'6.5). I'd love to trade Landry as part of a package to bring back a 6'11+ player who has a rounded game - but those players certainly don't grow on trees, and normally aren't all that "available" in trades. With the right "peices" around him, Hayes becomes a very versatile option in the middle.
and to add to that he also has a 6'10 wingspan and a 33 max vert....... got to love draftexpress.... -rocketblaze
Chuck Hayes is 6'4, but we were in regular shoes in the club. When the oldtonic was open downtown, I used to see a lot of those cats in there. Durvasa, I understand the parrallell that you're trying to make, but that was a different time and unseld was a different player. Unseld also had that 15ft jimmy just like all those other undersized centers back in the day. There is a reason why unseld played 36mpg and hayes is limited to 25 or so. I do think hayes is a very good defender in space and has a high bbiq, and is a good post defender, but because the rox pf are smallish in terms of legnth. When the pistons had wallace, they also had rasheed,and prince on the front line as well as the ring yrs when they had okur and campbell.Chuck is oakley type without the jumper.
Thanks, that's the type of feedback I hoping to get. I wasn't sure if Unseld had that mid-range jumper, but then I suppose most players do. It just struck me as an interesting comparison, because a lot of the things I see as Chuck's strengths were things that Unseld (an undersized center from a prior era) excelled at. Both were similar-sized, bulky, and without great leaping ability (in contrast to a Charles Barkley, who someone else brought up). But they exhibited leadership, great basketball IQ, and a grit and toughness that allowed them to maximize their physical tools more than most anyone else.
