I wasn't around to watch the NBA in the 70s, so I'd like the opinion of some of the older people on the board. From what I've read, Wes Unseld was a stocky, defensive-minded 6'6 center (6'6 by his own admission, though he was listed at 6'7) who set great screens, was a tenacious rebounder, and was a great passer. I think you know where I'm going with this. Is he the type of player who Chuck Hayes, if he maxed out his abilities, could aspire to be? How would you compare the two? I bring him up because over and over I hear people talk about how the Rockets are foolish to use a 6'6 player at C. But it seems to me that Wes Unseld was a similar player, at least in physical build and skill-set. Here's a numbers comparison between Chuck and Unseld in his Washington Bullet days when he was less of a scorer. It is per 36 minutes, pace adjusted to a 90 pace factor. Code: Unseld Hayes Height 6'6 6'5 Weight 245 240 Min 35.0 17.5 Pts 7.9 7.0 Reb 10.8 10.6 Ast 3.7 1.5 Stl 0.9 1.7 Blk 0.6 0.7 TOV 1.0 1.3 PF 2.5 5.4 FG% 58% 53% FT% 64% 58% ORTG 118 113 Def-SPM +2.53 +3.00 Unseld played twice the minutes Chuck has played in his career, and while not a scorer by any means was a more involved offensive player. Over twice the assists, slightly more efficient, less turnover prone. Defensively, Chuck has racked up the fouls compared to Unseld in his more limited minutes. He's also used his quick hands to get a good number of steals, not an Unseld strength. They are comparable defensive rebounders. Defensive Statistical +/- (a linear box-score formula to estimate defensive effectness, from Dan Rosenbaum) suggests comparable impact. I'm not saying that Chuck Hayes is the player Wes Unseld was, but rather that Unseld could be the model for what he can hope Hayes becomes this year. What do you guys think?
Great comparison. Wes Unseld may be the best rebound outlet passer ever. He could get the ball out on the break in an instant, a lot of times, before his feet hit the floor after grabbing the board. I think Hayes is a better defender than Unseld. Don't think he can match Unseld on the offensive end.
Comparable in how they use their strength/leverage in the post, perhaps? I imagine Chuck has quicker feet/hands for getting deflections, guarding PnRs, and staying on face up players. I do hope Chuck can develop as a passer this year to something approaching what Unseld used to do.
I think we are going to see the passing, especially out of the high post. There's only one thing offensively that I wished Chuck had the ability to do. And that is elevate on his leap and hang. If he could do that instead of the quick bunny hop, he could get guys off their feet, then plow into them and draw the foul, take the contact, use his body to create the separation, then get the shot up. What he does right now is throw the shot up real quick off the little bunny hop to beat the defender off their feet. He developed that because he was blocked too many times and he wasn't drawing the foul. If he could learn to gather himself and go up into the defense and create the contact, it would be a bigger advantage for us than throwing up that bunny hop quick shot.
I was thinking about it just this morning, the very same comparison. I might be in the minority, but I think Chuck will be a candidate for DPOY. He can definitely get the stats considering that he has quick fans and steal the ball and also he has the ability to block a few shots here and there. His rebounding numbers will probably be around 7-8 a game. The most evident is going to be our defense still being in the top 10 in the league. I certainly don't think he will win it, but I have a feeling he will be among the top 5 candidates this year.
Funny you mention that, because Hayes definitely impressed last night with some of his passes. Anyone else notice? He ended up with 4 assists in 25 minutes. +1 for the thread, btw
It seems Chuck has been increasingly trying to AVOID drawing fouls and go to the line due to the embarassment over his FT form. It's almost as though he thinks that he would be required to go to the line naked or something. His offensive numbers really got worse as the years went on (attempts per minute, FG%, FT%, points per minute).
With the Rockets putting Chuck on the high post like they have been his assist avg for this season should get to at least 3.7, probably end up around 5. I would not be surprised if he bumped his Reb, Stls, and unfortunately TOV. His PF avg for this season could actually come down a bit, seeing that he now knows he has a much greater role on the team and will be needed to play more minutes.. pretty good comparison, thanks for digging this up
"Famed for his rebounding, bone-jarring picks and ability to ignite a fast break with his crisp, accurate outlet passes, Unseld made up for his lack of size (6’7”) with brute strength and sheer determination. Unseld took the Bullets franchise to four NBA Finals, and won the championship in 1978 over the Seattle SuperSonics, in which he was named the Finals MVP. He ended his playing career following the 1980–1981 season, and his #41 jersey was retired by the Bullets shortly thereafter." Chuck's also a very good outlet passer, and I think we can see some touchdown passes from him this year with the Rockets more focused on running. Did you catch that 90 foot pass he through to Budinger from out of bounds last night? Budinger wasn't quite able to get separation from his defender to finish it, but that was almost a spectacular play from those two.
According to draftexpress, Chuck's height is 6'6.75" in shoes, which is the measurement used in the NBA.
The biggest difference is obviously the offense. Chuck's 53% fg% is VERY misleading. I doubt he scores that efficiently this season, unless Mcgrady comes back full strength. What you've seen from Hayes last season is more likely. When he isn't finding himself wide open under the rim because of Yao's presence and getting great passes from Tracy his fg% drops. Halfway through the season teams will re-realize his scoring woes and his passing will suffer. Unfortunately, I could see his passing ability eventually becoming a non-factor because his own man can guard for the pass without fear of him scoring.
I think Hayes could aspire to be like the other Chuck, Barkley. While, you may say center, I believe Hayes' nature position is at the 4, not the 5. Hes only playing center out of necessity.
Unseld was a better scorer than Hayes. I don't think Chuck can ever develop into any kind of scorer other than sneaking to the basket for easy layups. Unseld's underhanded layup moves was quite effective for a short guy like him. I think this is probably why Unseld was a career long starter while Chuck is a bench player. That said, we have to remember that there are more athletic 7-footers nowadays than in the 70s. I doubt that Unseld could be as good if he was competing against today's big men. And this is something I repeated many times. Hayes's passing skill is very underrated. I guess because he is such a poor scorer, people automatically dismiss ANY offensive value he has.
The funny thing is I thought Chuck's underhanded layups were pretty effective his first couple years with us too. But like pmac said, its hard to dismiss that he's been trending downward on his finishing ability. He did shoot 53% against the Lakers huge front line in the playoffs, though. Maybe he just needs more consistent minutes (which he got under JVG as a starter).
Unseld was a better passer, a better offensive player, and he could stay on the court. Chuck keeps getting in foul trouble which, next to his horrific FT shooting, is the biggest knock against him, IMO. While Unseld wasn't a good FT shooter himself, we'd all love to see Chuck equal his numbers. Otherwise, it's a very interesting comparison. One quality they share... you can't keep them off the court. I remember Unseld playing with a big knee brace in the playoffs and playing very, very well. And their motors never quit. Never dog it, never take a play off. I love that quality in players, one of the reasons I'm a big fan of Chuck and of Scola.
Keep in mind Unseld had Elvin "The Big E" Hayes playing along side. Scola is a solid PF and Carl Landry is athletic, but neither approaches The Big E in terms of impact on the game...
