Who is Sick of the "I Want to Play in NY or LA" Trade Demand

Ok. That's where we disagree.

You - Steve wanted out of Vancouver because he wanted to play point.

Me - He wanted out of Vancouver because he never heard of the place, then found out it was cold as hell, would take a chuck due to Canadian taxes, and the market was the smallest in the NBA.

Whenever one player forces the hand of his team, envitably(sp?) the other team has an advantage. Same thing with the Pip trade.

Baron gave out places he would like to go. I'm sure Stevie did the same thing. No doubt he gave some places he would NOT like to go. So I think that difference is negligible. Their attitudes are the same imo.

 

<B>Ok. That's where we disagree.

You - Steve wanted out of Vancouver because he wanted to play point.

Me - He wanted out of Vancouver because he never heard of the place, then found out it was cold as hell, would take a chuck due to Canadian taxes, and the market was the smallest in the NBA.</b>

Francis TOLD not only Vancouver, but the other teams in the lottery don't bother drafting him if he couldn't run the point. He was adamant about it. That's why he was ticked off that Chicago didn't draft him.

<b>Whenever one player forces the hand of his team, envitably(sp?) the other team has an advantage. Same thing with the Pip trade.</b>

I agree with that, definitely, but in this case it wasn't lopsided. Vancouver needed a PF and SG prior to the draft. That got that in Othella and Dickerson. If they had a good franchise, a line-up of Dickerson, Bibby, Rahim, Othella and Reeves makes the playoffs. Dickerson is explosive. But Vancouver was a badly run franchise.

<b>Baron gave out places he would like to go. I'm sure Stevie did the same thing. No doubt he gave some places he would NOT like to go. So I think that difference is negligible. Their attitudes are the same imo. </B>

Actually he didn't give out a list. He told Vancouver he wouldn't play for them unless he ran the point, so Vancouver, already ticked off, decided to listen to offers. He never gave them a list of where to trade him to, and I'm pretty sure he didn't give them a list of where not to go. Vancouver was at the point that they were ticked off at him and wouldn't have gave him what he wanted (and I don't blame them), so I think they just started listening to the offers they got prior to the draft.

 

Was not talking about Baron in particular.

Rocket River

 

I did a quick search... "His main point to not wanting to play in Vancouver is his insistence of playing near his grandmother, that's why he played at College Park in Maryland." Just to add another factor. I'd like to hear from other Rocket fans on why Francis did not want to play for Vancouver.


Rocket River: Please see L.A. and their failed courtship with:

Kendall Gill (stayed in NJ for more money)

John Amechi (ditto)

Charles Oakley (ditto + used Lakers for leverage)

Lorenzen Wright (ditto + uded Lakers for leverage)

Horace Grant (left Lakers for more money)

Tyron Lue (ditto)

Deveon George (good chance he'll leave LA for more money)

So what's this

"I'll take the million dollar exception fro LA or NY but all you others have to pay me 10 million madness that has patured the league"

phenomenon you speak of?

With NY who overpays everyone?

With Shaw? (took a cut but he really had no other NBA suitors)

Walker (see above)

The only player I can think of is Fox (could of signed for big bucks in Atlanta or Cleveland but decided to stay w/ LA. but he was an aspiring actor! lol).

 

<b>I did a quick search... "His main point to not wanting to play in Vancouver is his insistence of playing near his grandmother, that's why he played at College Park in Maryland." Just to add another factor. I'd like to hear from other Rocket fans on why Francis did not want to play for Vancouver.
</b>

That was obviously used to improve his public relations. He said that AFTER he was traded. The reason that a lot of the people on the board talked about Vancouver was because of the fact that Francis SAID he wanted to play point, they wanted him to play SG, but he said he wouldn't play for Vancouver if he had to play SG, and they drafted him anyway.
If he wanted to play near his grandmother, why would he play in Houston, and not demand to be traded to Washington, or some place like that?

 

Houston to Washington is way closer than Vancouver on the other side of the country...

I think the whole thing about going to LA & NYC is not about the entertainment industry or endorsements. It's about living in a city that's say a little more enjoyable than Milwaukee, Salt Lake City or Cleveland...These big cities are more fun to live in and often have better weather. I'd much rather live in Houston, Dallas, LA, Miami or NY than WISCONSIN or MINNESOTA

Of course you have to find the situation with the best team and best living experience, and often there are compromises...Look at CWebb's example. He wanted to play back home at Detroit, but the team sucked. He wanted to play in NY because of the nightlife, etc, but not enough money. He wanted to play in Houston because they have alot of potential to be succesful and many like the city. He wanted to play in Indiana to play with his old buddy. He ended up staying in Sacramento or a "cow-town" as some describe it. However, he's on the best team in the NBA and getting paid well. So what if it's not the most exciting city, winning is worth it. Obviously for some, the compromise is not appealing enough. This is a job, and while most want to win, they want to enjoy their life as well...

 

I don't blame them at all. We live in a free market and they should be allowed to ply their trade in the city of their choosing. I live in NYC. I wanted to live here, so I got a job here and moved here. I refuse to criticize anybody who does the same.

If you think of it in abstract terms, the NBA draft makes no sense when compared to real life. What if you applied it to other professions? Say the top 200 medical school graduates were drafted by hospitals to come work for them regardless of their personal preference? So, congratulations, Dr., you will be living in FLint Michigan for four years. That would be absurd and outrageous, and probably labeled unamerican.

I am not arguing that the NBA should get rid of the draft, therre are useful externalities, such as providing competitive balance that make it much better than a market system. I am simply stating that we should not criticize players for wishing that they had the same rights that you and I have, although I guess you could say that it goes with the territory if you become multimillionaire for being lucky enough to be born with the trivial ability to put a ball in a basket.

 

I'm with Jeff on this one. To a degree.

I can understand when Steve Francis wanted to be picked #1, just for the bragging rights, and also, he would have been in Chicago (bigger endorsements; and his ego craves the spotlight).

Baron Davis? I can see him wanting to go to the Clips. That's his hometown. He actually wanted the Clips to draft him. Almost happened, but Charlotte lucked out that year.

Now if it's "I'll only play for LA or Chicago or NY," then, yeah, that's a little much, and perpetuates the picture of the spoiled, selfish athlete.

But it's certainly been done before. Kobe Bryant, 17 years old, refused to even try out for certain teams, and got drafted and traded to the Lakers. If you've got the stones and don't care about other people's opinions....

 

Anderlicht

I think Mitch Richmond took less to be there.
I'm sure Horry will want more if he left. Rick Fox was just the
only one honest [or uncooth depends on your perspective]
to say it . . ..

Rocket River

 

According to Stephen A. Smith, Baron doesn't like the owner of the Hornets. He knows he'll get the most money if he stays, but he wants to win or go home, hence the Clippers. Basically, he looked at the Hornets history of letting Free Agents walk like Mourning, Larry Johnson, Eddie Robinson, Eddie Jones, etc... He thinks that if he stays, he will be the only good player there and any other player of value will walk or get traded.

 

Eddie Jones was traded, he did not leave through free agency.

 

He was traded because he was going to leave anyway.

 

There's no doubt that LA and NY will most likely to be on every Free Agent's list, but their agents also know that the Lakers and Knicks are over the cap, so they'll most likely to be using those places as leverage.

No one is gonna say, "I want to play in Houston, Dallas, or Orlando, or else!" because they know that their leverage is drastically lower if they say they want to play at a specific team and the team he's currently on will have less options to work with, and therefore the sign and trade will be less than what the Free Agent could get, even though Florida and Texas has a lucrative tax situation.

It's just smart business sense by either the FA or his agent.

Now, if there were players who are bent on going to NY or LA for whatever reason, then we'd have more Stephon Marbury situations where they'd be willing to goto NBA hell and play with the Nets or Clippers. I dunno about the Clips, but the Nets ownership has been willing to give players the money. But no one wants to goto these teams because they're not proven winners, yet they logically provide the same endorsement and location opportunities a "superstar" should get.

And that would mean that location is not the end all demand...

 

While Mitch's family lives in Calabassas (my neck of the woods..hehe), he came for the RING.

THE RING.

NOT LA. THE RING.

 

Jeff: Invisible Fan made a great point.

Players use this empty demand for TRADE LEVERAGE. This screws teams like LA: wasting their resources on empty promises (Gill, Wright, Oakley) and delaying signing other FA's who have every intention of signing with LA.

 

Houston's benefitted from this in the form of Shandon Anderson and Maurice Taylor signing here for cheapo money. I'm not sure Taylor's reasons, but a big part of Anderson was the desire for a bigger, more urban city. Taylor may have been pure basketball reasons, though -- I'm not sure.

While LA / NY have their own inherent advantages, Houston is in the next tier with teams like Chicago. Teams like Cleveland or Utah are the ones really getting screwed.

 

JMO, but David is just using this NY/LA talk as leverage to get the max (which was already offred by the Hornets). I refuse to belive that he really wants to leave the Hornets due to their history of trading stars when they come up for contract renewal. If this were truly the case he would also have a big problem playing for the Clippers (who seem to have a similar history). Next, the Lakers have no money to offer Davis, along with the fact there is little room for a third star on the team. Finally we get to NY, I dout Davis could take 1/2 half a season of the scrutiny of rabid NY fans. I think the NY thing is along the same lines of the Webber to NY crap, which ultimately resulted in Webber signing a big contract with the Kings. Bottom line Baron is UNDER CONTRACT for the next 2 years, let him cry all he wants. If he refuses to play and/or elects to play sub-par ball, become a locker room plauge, etc, in protest, he only damages his FA value. I mean how does the guy even know if he hates NO yet, he has yet to play a game here or see any of the fan support. My guess is he will play in NO next year, grow to love the city and sign for the max, thus remaining with the Hornets. BTW if any of you guys want more on this debate check out the forums at www.neworleanshornets.com

 

You can rationalize Davis' thought process; his agent presents LA and New York as viable destinations, not because they are in reality, but more to imply that he won't accept being shipped to the Utah or Cleveland's of the NBA. Typical Fegan-like subterfuge.

Then there's the obvious history with Shinn, which even if he weren't aware of prior to his arrival in Charlotte, he's experienced in his 3 seasons with the club. First, they let one of his good friends, Eddie Robinson, walk when the asking price wasn't out of their budget. Then, they reluctantly give Lee Nailon a minimum contract after weeks of argument over Nailon's desire to have the contract guaranteed for the entire season, not just the half a season the Hornets were offering.

He sees the writing on the wall for the rest of his little clique; Nailon and Magloire will probably leave for greener pastures in the near future, leaving him Kirk Hasting, Bryce Drew and Matt Bullard to hang out with; not exactly the ideal setting for a kid from LA.

No, the player who I resent the most for trying to gain leverage due to his 'status' is Mr. Blase-Andre Miller. The only difference between he and Brevin Knight is 3 inches and about 30 pounds, but he has the audacity to ask for the max, despite making the Cleveland Cavaliers a worse team since his arrival, based on the fact he led the league in assists, which is less than impressive given the make-shift, highschool offense that they run.

He's admired though, because he's a 'traditional point guard', which is really just a cute euphemism nowadays for 'can't shoot beyond 15 feet." See Jamal Tinsley for further proof.

The irony of it all...- Of the 3 point guards taken in the 99' draft, the one that had the most character issues appears to be the only one that's not going to bail on his team, and for that, I'm thankful.

 

Miller's not bailing on anyone. The owners are bailing on him.