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Ariza will be more effective with McGrady

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by TheGreat, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. rockets2

    rockets2 Member

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    Tracy makes this team better when healthy. most objective and not agenda driven fans see that.
     
  2. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    If DD gives the guy another chance because he's still a Rocket, we should take it easy on his flip-flopping.
     
  3. NBAok

    NBAok Member

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    what a ball hog. :rolleyes: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LziwU_W97Y&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1LziwU_W97Y&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  4. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Dang, makes me sick.


    The question I have is this: Who will be more effective alongside a healthy McGrady, Trevor Ariza or Shane Battier?

    It really appears to me that Ariza and Battier are duplicative. Battier probably has a little better man to man defense. Ariza is obviously more athletic, and a better slasher/finisher/scorer than Battier although Battier is the better shooter from distance. If Ariza gets that open jump shot back like he had it in the playoffs last year, Battier appears to be a very attractive trade piece, maybe to team like Toronto, along with either Scola or Landry and expirings for a guy like Bosh.
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    How is McGrady going to help anybody get open this year?

    He couldn't create his own shot last year.
     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I think the idea is that he'll be better this year than last year.
     
  7. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    Maybe you missed the part where he was injured and not playing how he's capable, when healthy. Maybe you missed the part where he had surgery. Maybe you missed where he averaged 6+ assists per game the previous 2 seasons. Maybe you missed where he still averaged 5 assists per game last year.

    A healthy McGrady helps as a facilitator in this offense, even if he never returns to his 2005 or even 2007 form. He attracts a double team and can find the open man when that happens. That's always been a strength of his. Of course, the whole discussion is predicated on McGrady's health.

    Anyway, you don't have to be good at creating for yourself to create for others. Look at Jason Kidd, who's always been a good passer but a mediocre shooter. Hell, look at Rafer.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Are you kidding? Seriously are you kidding?

    You take a highlight reel of passes like they happen every game? He does pass, that is not the issue it is his dominance of the ball that is the problem.

    If he would play off of it more often.....eh whatever, some people see the game through much different lenses.

    DD
     
  9. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

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    T-Mac is only that much ball-dominant cos he HAS to. There is no one else he could turn to to relieve himself of the responsibilities. If he had Chauncey Billups next to him I'm sure he'd love to play off the ball.
     
  10. Francis 4 ever

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  11. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Member

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    Someone name an all-star shooting guard other than Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton that dominates the ball less than Tmac. If anyone says Michael Redd I'm gonna slap them.
     
  12. the_hustler

    the_hustler Member

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    LOL!

    there are quite a few people on this BBS who would trade McG for Redd.
     
  13. verse

    verse Member

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    Maybe you missed the part where blind hatred and repeated lies, accusations, and assumptions equal BBS truths. McG never rehabbed, faked his shoulder and knee injuries, didn't need surgery, sabotaged a trade before his contract year only so he could come back and score a lot on a crappy non-Yao (whom he hated and "iso-ed") team, hated Ron, hated Rafer, only dished when it was a guaranteed assist, is a chucker, and has played his last game as a Rocket.

    All courtesy of the GARM.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    Nicely played sir, nicely played.
     
  15. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    nice!
     
  16. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    This is kind of a catch-22 for me, w22_streak.

    I agree wholeheartedly with you, on Tracy McGrady not having anybody who could handle playmaking or offensive facilitator roles for the Rockets in recent seasons. Nobody the Rockets had during Jeff Van Gundy's time here was even remotely proficient at either running the offense (such as it was), or being consistently opportunistic enough when defenses focused on Yao or McGrady.

    A facilitator, to me, makes it easier for his teammates to do what they do best on the court on offense. Rajon Rondo is an example of a facilitator. That kid's stat lines night-in and night-out read like there's two of him on the court. He passes. He rebounds. He assists. He steals. If he were 6'7" instead of 6'1", he'd be called Scottie Pippen.

    It's strange, that, because of how much "dirty work" Rondo does, the rest of his teammates (including three future hall-of-fame players), defer to Rondo as the team's leader, w22_streak. Rondo allows Kevin Garnett to be an absolutely freakish defensive player. Rondo allows Ray Allen to move around and look for his shots on the weak side of the court. Rondo allows Paul Pierce to focus more on his individual defense, and to be the guy, when the game is close, to shut the door on the other team.

    McGrady has "dominated" the basketball far too much for the Rockets in the past. But people will believe that that was because McGrady had some sinister personal agenda or inferiority complex. Just not true.

    The cracks about it are pretty funny, though.

    But anybody with talent has to either trust (or at least, allow) teammates to handle the responsibilities of their positions, or have the team focus on doing the team stuff, and let the other player "do what he does best".

    And here's where I get to say a thing or two about Allen Iverson, w22_streak.

    Hearing alot about how Iverson led a bunch of undertalented Philadelphia 76ers to the 2001 NBA Finals. They even managed to take a game from the Kobe-and-Shaq Lakers (game 1 in the Forum, no less).

    Iverson had a special season that year. Iverson was (and still is, to me, in many respects) a special player.

    Larry Brown's a hall of fame coach, who's coached more basketball than anybody else, and won everywhere he's coached. I don't know Larry Brown personally, but I remember how stormy a relationship he had with Iverson during their time in Philadelphia, w22_streak. I believed then (and still believe now) that Brown loved Iverson immensely. I would suppose the feeling is mutual. No coach has done as much for Iverson’s professional reputation as has Larry Brown.

    But in spite of how Brown couldn't make Iverson into the type of guard he'd wanted, he worked with what he had in order to make the best use of both Iverson's talent and mentality.

    Brown fields a team of competitive, defensive-minded players, who were unselfish and understood that the only chance they had as a team to score enough points to beat anybody was to give Iverson as many attempts to score as he needed and wanted. Iverson didn't facilitate an offense where nobody else but him had a chance to score. Iverson manufactured the offense. Everybody else got out of his way. Eric Snow, in particular, made sure that, whatever passed for offensive sets for the 76ers were run by everybody else (facilitating, if you're into that buzzword). From time to time, somebody had to make a shot. But everything the 76ers did was to get Iverson a shot, w22_streak.

    It worked pretty good, too. The only decision Iverson ever had to make was if his right arm was too tired to take a shot. Iverson wouldn’t have done well setting up people either. He was supremely confident in his own ability. He was totally fearless and utterly relentless. Iverson’s mind was made up. He was going to score, and there wasn’t anything you were going to do about it.

    Iverson had a role, in essence. One that suited him and got the most out of him, and helped the team most importantly. And since the results were so favorable, Iverson deserves the praise he gets for that team’s success. It’s interesting to note, for example, how easily people don’t regard Iverson’s really modest shooting percentages (during the course of games where he would routinely take 30 or more shots) as much of an issue since the 76ers were able to win.

    It’s why, also, Brown and Iverson couldn’t coexist long after that season, w22_streak. Brown loved Iverson enough to allow him to play the game his way, but Brown knew that if the 76ers were going to win consistently, he had to get Iverson some help. And that meant Iverson would have to change the way he played (even if only a little), if the team would continue to succeed. Iverson didn’t buy it, of course. He believed, like a lot of people, that he did it by himself, and that he could do it by himself.
    Which may explain why Iverson hasn’t come close to achieving that success again.

    Iverson is special in his approach. He won’t be denied a chance to score if he has anything to do with it. It makes him a great player. But a lousy teammate.

    I get people questioning Tracy McGrady’s playing “style”, or his heart, or his hairstyle. McGrady has his detractors (“realists”, I’m told) and his supporters (“apologists”, I think is the term). We’re all going to choose sides and figure the other side is totally nuts or completely stupid.

    In my opinion, w22_streak, McGrady is much more manageable a player than Allen Iverson ever was. He does what you ask him. Maybe that doesn’t make McGrady great. Or a leader. Or even deserving of oxygen.

    Better people than me have to decide that. And already have, I believe.

    I think that McGrady has to believe in his coach and in his teammates for a change. It’s not all on McGrady, w22_streak. Never has been. Never will be.

    That’s the only question I have about anything regarding McGrady. If he can trust teammates that have finally become trustworthy…..not through favoritism or short-sightedness…but through results……
     
  17. verse

    verse Member

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    mdrowe00:

    That was a fantastic, well written post. I have the same questions about McG, and I wish he had Yao (or Deke or any other offensively serviceable and defensively intimidating center) to play alongside this year. I do think he'll play well with Ariza, Brooks, and Scola, but that may be overshadowed by what the general public considers the trump card: W/L.

    In most situations, I'd agree with that sentiment, however, I can't expect more than 35 wins from a team so devoid of interior defensive presence. To be succinct, we're going to get slaughtered in the paint. With that comes fleeting chances at being more uptempo and an increase in half-court sets (ironically, where McG thrives). This could easily lead to a statistically great year for McG on a bad team, and people will once again claim he's a cancer, not a winner, etc. all the while ignoring the fundamentally flawed construction of this year's team.

    As for AI, he may be the best high scoring midget combo guard in history. His fearlessness is freakish, but is nothing in comparison to his durability and healing abilities (is there an AI X-Men character? No? There should be. Like a Wolverine with cornrows, I swear). He takes more game to game abuse than any guard I've ever witnessed (sorry LeBron for the copyright infringement. Please don't sue me, as you won't even feel my meager contribution to your billionaire quest), and I swear he just keeps going with an undeniable intensity and unflappable confidence.

    Kudos on your recognition of Coach Brown, as well. He is my alltime favorite coach for all the reasons you listed, especially the jobs he did with Kansas (Danny and the Miracles) and the Clippers (!!!). No coach gets more out of less. No coach (save for maybe Hubie Brown) has been a greater teacher of the game (Coach Wooden please forgive my hyperbole, but dangit he deserves it. I didn't curse, either, so maybe you'll spare me).

    Not contradictorily, I actually don't like AI as a player to build around. Its for the exact reasons you listed as it creates far too many limitations for his coaches. I want flexibility and options for my coach and Iverson creates to many walls for the constructs of his team and makes it far too simple to gameplan him. Its the same reason, on court, why I dislike Steve Francis (actually there are more with SF3, but I won't go tangential here, just verbose).

    In the end, AI will be a HOF-er, supplanting our very own Calvin Murphy as the greatest little man in the halls of Springfield. I'll cheer the hell out of it, too, as he undeniably took the Sinatra route. He did it his way, played his heart out, and succeeded at it, no matter the decisions, no matter how valid they may or may not have been. I can only hope fate has the same in store for McG. A few seasons with healthy, competent teammates along with a determinance to utilize them fully will vanquish the 1st round ghosts and silence at least some of his critics. He can rest easy knowing the record shows, he took the blows, and did it...
     
  18. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

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    tmac has to realize hes not the man anymore. he needs to defer to aaron brooks, ariza, and chase budinger.
     
  19. TMac4Life#1

    TMac4Life#1 Member

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    I don't see why not I mean come on the man made Chuck Hayes into the player he is today ( sort of ) The man just makes everyone around him better.
     
  20. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    Thank you, verse.

    You make some good points yourself.

    We'll see how it plays out......
     

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