The Dream revolutionized the game with his footwork. No one could compare to him...not Russell, not Wilt, not Kareem and no one can still compare to him, you think Thabeet, Yao, Okafor, Dwight, Bynum, or anyone else can develop such agility and footwork? That being said, Russell was one of the best defenders and for sure a top 3 center and Wilt was a dominant center of his time and could prolly dominate now too so he's a lock for Top 3 center. As for Kareem, IMO he wasn't as dominant, he was good but he was surrounded by some of the best players including Magic and Worthy (and I think people really underrate Worthy's skills to the Laker team, but thats ok cause I hate the Lakers ) plus to me all he really had was that one unblockable "sky hook". My honest opinion, I think Hakeem could beat all of them in a simple one on one game. His offensive skill sets were uncomparable to any other center, hence why the Dream recently said his moves are more for a tall guard like Kobe to dominate in the post and how Yao used to say Hakeem's moves were too fast and quick for him to master. And don't forget how he destroyed the Admiral with his agility in the playoffs and Robinson was one of the quicker well conditioned centers in NBA history.
Exactly. Hall of Fame competition, and he had to face them a lot more often than Hakeem faced his peers.
IMO What you have to look at is the level of competition. I might be wrong but was the level of comp during Russel and Wilts era as big, long and athletic as during Dreams years? Imagine Dream back then... that is where it would be the biggest difference. Both Russel and Wilt would dominate in todays game but you cannot compare stats. Dreams stats would have been crazy back then. Where as the others stats might not be as good if they played in Dreams era.
Agree on your evaluation of Wilt and Russell. As for Hakeem in a one on one game, he'd do well, but that's not how I ultimately judge a player. It's a team game, and Russell proved that. He wasn't the best individual player, but the best team player without a doubt. If it was all about one on one matchups, Wilt would've won it all every year.
Once again, you're assuming that Wilt's era was the same caliber as Hakeem's era. Simply put, how many of Wilt's contemporaries who made the hall of fame would've had similar success in Olajuwon's era?
A team's success is contingent on one-on-one matchups. Look at the 1995 WCF. Olajuwon's dominance forced the Spurs to give extra help on defense which gave open look to the other Rockets on the floor. Sure, it was up to each individual player to knock down the open shot, but the opportunity was created b/c of Olajuwon's one-on-one effectiveness.
Russell played against the same competition Wilt did, so I don't see your point. I do believe Kareem could've won with Hakeem's cast. The offense revolved around the center drawing double teams, and kicking it out for a three. Who drew more double teams than Kareem? No double team, Kareem was automatic. Sounds a lot like Hakeem. Kareem in his prime was every bit as unstoppable as Hakeem, before he ever played with Magic. Russell could've won with any reasonably talented team, IMO.
Hard to compare eras, but several would thrive in Hakeem's era, IMO, especially with the advantages players now have: better conditioning, weight training, easier travel . I see Lucas, Reed, Bellamy, Russell, doing just fine today. Not to mention West, Robertson, Havlicek, etc. If Hakeem had grown up in that earlier era, I don't see him as superior to Wilt or Russell.
Sure, to some extent. But citing one playoff series isn't going to convince me. Wilt's dominance got him two titles. Hakeem's got him two. Russell's team play got him 11. He understood that team concept more than any player in history. He was unique.
Yeah, there were. From all accounts, the play in the 60's and 70's was far rougher than the 90's. You didn't show up the other team, because you'd paid for it later. There were fights constantly. The Bulls of that era, in particular, were extremely physical, with Jerry Sloan and Norm Van Lier. This is the same era where Rudy T took that horrific punch to the face. Read the book about it, "The Punch", for accounts of how physical the league was back then.
You can't assume that their games would've improved that much with modern conditioning. Look at the players who come into the NBA straight from high school (and thus don't have access to many of the advantages you're assuming) or the players who came into the league after 1 year of college: Lebron, JR Smith, Rose, Durant, etc... Each of those players would've dominated had they played in Wilt's era. Simply put, the game and players have evolved tremendously since Wilt played.
I'll have to leave it up to the older posters to agree/disagree with you. I was watching the NBA in the late 80's, and I found it very rough; there were also fights back then. Remember McHale's foul on Rambis? Wasn't that called just a regular foul? No offense, but its an exaggeration to say that any era was far rougher than the early 90's/late 80's unless there were actual fights on the court that resulted in players' deaths.
That one playoff series was the obvious example, but if you want more examples, look at pretty much all the playoff series that Olajuwon played in from the late 80's to the mid 90's. During that time, the Rockets were constructed as an inside-out team with Olajuwon as the centerpiece of the offense. Also, once again you're placing too much emphasis on Russell's team. If Olajuwon were surrounded by HOF talent for his career, he'd have an equally (if not more) impressive resume. Look at the 1994 squad. Aside from Olajuwon, there were no all-stars that year and no HOF talent.
We agree that Russell was a good team player and a great defender/rebounder and Wilt dominated people with his size and strength and athleticism. But how about their shooting? or their footwork? or their skill sets like dribbling, quick hands? One thing I like looking at is FT percentage, not because I think that it defines who the best basketball players are but it does show me whether such a player carries a key traits necessary for being a skilled basketball player. Being able to shoot an open shot consistently is important for a basketball player. Hakeem shot 71% for his career, both Wilt and Russell and even a dominant center like Shaq couldn't. Of course, FT shooting isn't the defining characteristic or else Yao might be the best center in the NBA ever haha. But its another reason why I like to favor Hakeem a lot more as a top center. Also I mentioned the one on one idea based on the fact that its almost impossible to really compare players based on their team accomplishments and how they'd do if they were with different teammates. As much as Russell's 11 rings are a great accomplishment, sometimes you can't rank a player's greatness on rings. Like Horry vs other power forwards like Malone or Sir Charles?
Regardless of eras, Hakeem still wouldn't average 50 ppg and 25 rpg like Wilt had. And where the hell is Shaq? He's far better than Hakeem and Russell.
that could just mean he had a good team around him. look at MJ or Kobe. they arent really known as good team players but were on good teams that allowed them to dominate.
We're doing this again? How many threads does that make about this subject... a bazillion? OK, I'll put in my 2 cents. I got to see Russell and Wilt play on TV. Russell was a beast. He was also on an extremely well coached and managed team made up of all star players. Wilt was beyond being a beast. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see his like again. He didn't have the luck Russell had with his surrounding players, his coaches, his team's management. Kareem set an impossible standard of endurance that may never be equaled by another player at his position. He was still playing at a very, very high level, on an amazing team with an excellent coach and management (sound familiar?), when a second year Akeem, along with Sampson and possibly the deepest team in Rockets history smoked them in 5 games in the '86 WC Finals. I'd take the Dream over all of them, were I starting a team today and had to pick someone to build around. No contest.
