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Tavern Talk: Texans Need to Start Over

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by MadMax, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. studogg

    studogg Member

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    Well, he says "start over" which is building from scratch. you are actually echoing the sentiment of my post. His individual points make sense, but his tile and topic are poorly chosen.

    If I write a thesis on ending hunger titled "An end to hunger - Kill em all", it doesn't matter how many valid points I make in the body of the work in regards to true solutions to the hunger crisis, my main topic as defined by the title is invalid.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The defense is too passive, we need an attacking style of D Coordinator.

    Get a Ryan or Muschamp type and the team takes off, IMO.

    DD
     
  3. desihooper

    desihooper Member
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    I think the Texans know how to find/select/draft players on offense much better than they do on the defensive side. They seem to draft players who have great combine numbers on the defensive side and hope that it translates on the field. If they had a defensive coordinator who knew what kind of players he wanted, it'd be much easier. That's the one thing that JVG could always do, he knew how to find players that fit his scheme. Kubiak does great at this on "his" side of the ball, but the defense is hurting for an infusion of talent.

    I got into an argument with a buddy of mine where I was saying you could go young on offense and still be pretty good, but when you go young on defense, you risk disaster because you have to play smart on defense. You can get buy on supreme talent (i.e. speed, athleticism, etc.) on offense, but if you are out of position on defense, you're negating your athletic advantages by being a step slow/late.

    For all the props that our recent drafts have garnered, we're still behind on defense.

    Kubiak's drafts (defensive):
    2006 - Mario Williams (1st), DeMeco Ryans (2nd)
    2007 - Amobi Okoye (1st), Fred Bennett (4th), Brandon Harrison (5th), Zach Diles (7th)
    2008 - Antwaun Molden (3rd), Xavier Adibi (4th), Frank Okam (5th), Dominique Barber (6th)
    2009 - Brian Cushing (1st), Connor Barwin (2nd), Glover Quin (4th), Brice McCain (6th), Troy Nolan (7th)

    that's 15 defensive picks over the past 4 drafts (out of 29 possible). Five starters (MW, DR, AO, ZD, and BC)- which is good, but you've got 7 guys (almost half) that aren't playing/contributing. I still hold out hope that Molden becomes a player, but who knows how he'll bounce back from his injury. I guess we'll see what Quin and McCain can do, but judging by the fact that they can't beat out Petey Bennett right now, I'm not holding my breath. Barwin needs to show something more than his spin move, else this draft is going to net us one impact player THIS year, which we can all agree is a big one for this franchise.

    They've hit a lot better on the offensive side (5 starters - counting Studdard and 2 key contributors in Anderson and Jacoby). The jury is still out on Hill/Casey as they have yet to sniff the field, but it's clear that Kubiak knows what kind of players can work in his system.

    I'm tired of having to say every year that this'll be the year we get a dominant DT and some help for our secondary... they should be offering up whatever they can to get a guy like Shaun Rogers here from Cleveland. Let him line up next to DelJuan/Cody on first and second down and let Amobi be a situational pass rusher on the inside. It's clear that he can't hold the point right now, so why even have him on the field on rushing downs?
     
  4. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Why do people keep saying this specifically about the defense? Our defense is horrible. Why would it matter if a new scheme was put in place?

    You think with the current players but a different scheme the defense would be significantly better?

    I don't see it. They could theoretically get more pressure on the quarterback by blitzing and scheme blitzing more, and that might work against lesser opponents, but wouldn't any moderately above average offensive opponent be able to scheme against that because our backfield sucks so much? That's why their called "safeties" - to be that necessary last line of defense when the front guys either screw up or are out of position due to the scheme. When your corners or safeties are out of position because they suck, then you give up big plays, which the defense has been doing since preseason started.
     
    #24 JayZ750, Oct 2, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  5. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    Nice post, desihooper.

    It's pretty alarming seeing that the defensive backs we DO draft are all late rounders. I'm all for drafting projects in later rounds, but that's only if you're signing good free agents to fill the gap in the mean time. The Texans aren't doing that. It's like they are assuming they can just catch lightning in a bottle and get lucky in the late rounds, so they don't think it's necessary to use a high pick on a DB. Kind of like with RB's.

    Did we really have to use our 2nd round pick to draft a one-dimensional pass-rusher who is too small to be a full-time DE? A 2nd round pick?? Hell, the guy didn’t even play DE until his senior year in college. And what's with Antwaun Molden? Has that guy even dressed for a game yet? He's like a phantom. I've never even seen him in uniform.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i think he just means something different when he says, "start over" than you mean. he's talking more fundamentally...from an organization standpoint. he spells out what he means by that in the article, itself.
     
  7. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

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    To me, it seems like they keep waiting to address the defensive backfield issues we have in free agency, but then never end up pulling the trigger on any significant moves. I'm not really sure if Connor Barwin would have been a choice I would have made this season.....a speed rusher is a commodity in this league, but to spend a second round pick on someone who is undersized and new at the position is questionable. It may end up working out very well once he gets some coaching, but I still feel like if they had spent that pick on a safety, or even another CB, I think it would have gone much further for the future. Although I understand what he's saying about the team's philosophy being flawed, to say that it needs to be blown up is wrong. This team has the talent to compete, and succeed, it's just that their weaknesses are GLARING. There are very few teams out there that are strong at every single position, but right now, the Texans aren't even serviceable. That's the FO's fault for not recognizing the market, and not understanding what their needs were heading into the draft.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I do, I think you crowd the line of scrimmage cover for 3 seconds and take your chances with pressure.

    We don't have the corners to lay back.

    DD
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    that's what the writer of this article was saying on the radio this morning....that they have no pass rush and their secondary is swiss cheese...and that it's been that way for so long that something is fundamentally wrong with the way the organization chooses personnel.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Well we've had two different regimes that do things completely different. I would argue that Kubiak and Smith are a lot different than Capers and Casserly, for the better.

    Still, it's not good, though there have been some gems- Mario, DeMeco, Cushing, Slaton, Daniels, Schaub, etc.

    I like that McNair actually is hands off and let's his hires do their thing. He started over once, with Kubiak. He may have to start over again, this time with an experienced head coach. Both Capers and Kuiam were 1st timers.
     
  11. sammy

    sammy Member

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    We haven't been passive. In fact, it seems to me that we get burned when our players are being too aggressive (taking the wrong angle, etc)

    We blitz to no avail. It has been picked up easily, which leads to easy passes down the field. We dont' have the personnel to play a 3-4, which is what you're suggesting by getting a Ryan type of coach.

    The bottom line is that we need a fat, strong guy in the middle. Even when Mario and Smith get to the QB, the QB just needs to move up a little and he has a lane to complete a pass.

    The DT's are not bringing enough pressure. Okoye started off as a promising player. He had 5.5 sacks in his rookie season, but has ONE sack since then. I hate to speculate but I think Okoye could be working harder in the offseason.
     
  12. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    I've noticed this too. Mario is always coming hard on the outside (like any good DE) but all the QB has to do is step up and make the easy throw - because there is NOTHING happening in the middle. No pressure at all coming from the middle of the line.

    I'm sure they are being coached to do this against us. I saw Garrard do this several times on Sunday.
     
  13. RocketJedi

    RocketJedi Member

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    He rarely passes up an opportunity to take a shot at the Texans. After week 1 he was on NFL Network saying Kubiak is on the hot seat. Nothing last week, then another loss and here he is again in this article and on NFL Network declaring Kubiak a dead man walking. I can understand not liking the way the Texans are going about building a team but this guy just seems to not like this team, but hey at least he cares enough to talk and write about the Texans.
     
  14. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    they have crowded the line of scrimmage. The big runs have been primarily because the safety has missed the tackle (or took a bad angle) close to the line of scrimmage.

    As for the passive part...Texans have been one of the more blitzing teams so far this year. WHich is nice because they are being aggressive...crappy because they have been getting burnt being overly aggressive.
     
  15. the futants

    the futants Member

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    I laughed...


    I still think Kubiak has a chance to be a good-to-almost-great offensive coach in the NFL. The Texans need somebody -- anybody -- who can scheme a 4-3 defense. For cryin' out loud! Bring in some talent at safety and SCHEME A DEFENSE. God...

    I'm scared to death McNair is going to bring in some defensive "genius" with a 3-4 and send us back to the Starting Line AGAIN.
     
  16. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Member

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    Why doesn't he like Cushing?
     
  17. rockets934life

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    Injury prone and he believes the guy is a Steriod user which in turn leads to the injuries besides scheme issues with the 4-3 defense. I just remember before and after the draft, Lance Z interviewing him about Cushing and Lombardi wanting the Texans to take Matthews instead.
     
  18. Naija Texan

    Naija Texan Member

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    The truth is that we technically fully started over Kubiak's second year here. Unfortunately, we had fairly unimpressive players like Greenwood and Weaver, along with a non-aggressive defensive coordinator. So while the offense grew, the defense despite getting a lot of draft picks (we have drafted a corner back in every draft since 2007), it still hasn't turned around.

    I think most of our defensive interior problems, along with bad play from our younger characters are the root of our inability to stop the big plays so far this season.
     
  19. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member
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    yeah but its an uneven playing field - no one is expecting a 7th rounder (ie nolan) to contribute so its hard to hold that against kubiak's success rate. in fact, i'd argue from the 4th round on - once you're outside the top 100 players available - the draft is pretty much a crap shoot and anything you get is a bonus. 9 of the 15 defensive players he's drafted were 4th round or later, and 4 were 6th round or later.

    he's had 12 "day one" picks (ie top 100) in four years here and he's used 6 on defensive players. technically, he's had 14; two went for schaub, so it's fair to argue he maybe... maybe doesn't place as high a priority on defensive players. then again, of his 4 #1s, 3 were defensive players, so...

    kubiak's biggest issue, imo, has been taking too many "projects" early in the draft. okoye, while a justifiable top 10 pick at the time, is now looking more and more like a certified 2-3-year (if ever) project. jones, molden - even barwin: you can't "waste" top 100 picks on projects. even mario was a bit of a project.

    i wish he focused more on college production and less on high ceiling guys.
     
  20. desihooper

    desihooper Member
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    Since Nolan's hurt and only drafted this year, a pass is totally acceptable on that one. What's killing me is on a team lacking in so many areas on the defensive side of the ball, we've only been able to draft/develop three good-to-great defensive players in four years (Williams, Ryans, and Cushing), and two average to below-average starters in Okoye and Diles (a 7th round pick). Everyone else is a backup (Bennett, Molden, Barwin) or a not good enough to be on the roster player (Harrison). And it's not like we've gone out and stocked up on defensive players via FA.
    I'd disagree with your last statement, I think he does place a value on defense (as evidenced by his going with Mario to set a defensive tone for the franchise), it's just that he (and his newbie DC's) really doesn't know what type of player to best utilize in their defensive scheme. I think Bush has a better idea of what he's looking for (moreso than Smith) because he knew right away that Cushing was the kind of player/presence he needs at SLB.

    And arguing semantics here, but if you look at "top 100" picks, he's actually had 15 over four years, and counting the two Schaub picks, he's spent 9 on the offensive side (Caldwell, Brown, Slaton, Jones, Spencer, Winston, Daniels, Schaub, and Schaub) and 6 on the defensive side (Cushing, Barwin, Molden, Okoye, Williams, and Ryans). The problem is that only 3 of the 6 defensive players are making an impact (although Molden was a ST maven before he got hurt).
    Fully agreed.
     

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