Empire State Building to go Red for PRC 60th Anniversary

China turned around when Mao died and Deng Xiaoping changed the direction. Simple as that. China is still basically 10 to 15 years behind Taiwan in terms of development.

 

I don't get what this has to do with the Republic of China NOT being a Republic. You can bash all the terrible things Mao and communist China has done over the years, but it's no secret that the government in China before the communist were much, much worse. I was just annoyed that SamFisher somehow thinks that the Republic of China under Chiang Kai Shek was some sort of democratic haven where everyone lived happily, which the great big bad communists brutally destroyed. In fact, living conditions got noticeably better under the new regime.

Anyway, in response to your post,

Republic of China = Elitist society where regular people are treated like crap(mainly lord/peasant relationship)
People's Republic of China = Society where everyone's a regular joe... although eventually the educated became persecuted. But it really didn't affect most of the people.

Sure, communism set China back a few decades in terms of technological advances and modernization. But it's not as if that in of itself determines the livelihood of regular people.

And BTW, since you're making the comparisons to Russia and N. Korea, are you implying that the Russian monarchy and the Japanese rule of Korea were benevolent "republics"? Because otherwise the analogy makes non sense. I was debating relative evil here. Not absolute.

 

Then you don't understand the definition of the word "Republic."

If you are trying to make the argument that the PRC is a representative democracy with a popularly elected head of state in any practical sense you are wrong. Autocratic one-party dictatorships w/no suffrage are not representative democracies, no matter the self-nomenclature

the ROC today however does meet that definition.

 

Stop putting words in my mouth please. When did I say that?

ROFL! So this is your argument? Nice.

I'm glad to know that all sins of the past can be swept under the rug if only the government is a republic today. I need to use more of this retroactively absolving of blame in my arguments more. And I'm sure the millions of Chinese who lived under the oppression of the old RoC will fully agree with you and start celebrating Oct. 10 as National day.

 

Repulsive.... do they go red for the Bolshevik Revolution too?

 

You said you didn't understand why I kept saying the PRC wasn't a real republic. I explained why. Because it's not.

I ain't saying anything about the sins of the past - the KMT has some and the CCP has a hell of a lot as well - that doesn't change the fact that ROC has a true republican form of government, while PRC does not.

 

goof points. for the record, though, the Brooklyn Bridge was recently lit green to support the situation in Iran...

 

I'm sorry, I meant GOOD points

still waiting on that trusty edit feature from the gentle moderators

 

Well, this is from an "outsider" who first benefited and then suffered, all because of the revolution.

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China's human rights records is pretty atrotious. But we have had our fair share of atrocity against people. Slavery, indentured servants, exploitation of the poor, the Native Americans, poisoning people....it's all part of our history. So I can see why the Chinese posters here have an annoyance at our self-righteousness. By the way, I apologize for antagonizing many of the posters here from China or of Chinese descent in the past.

In any case, China is simply an evolving nation. Any nation that goes from a rural to industrial is going to have a lot of hardships on it's people. I don't think it's possible without it. India is the same way. The U.S....who didn't read what..the grapes of wrath or whatever? Poor people get exploited. This is the nature of all gov't.

Most of our resistance to China is a farce. To maintain a facade of anti-communism pro-freedom. Fact is, China will soon be our biggest trading partner, exceeding Canada. Amazing for a country that is on the other side of the planet.

The U.S. and China's fate are intertwined. Our standard of living is built upon the PRC. How many of the things in our homes...from furniture to items in the kitchen, to electronics and computer components, to whatever, have some piece manufactured in China. All of us are directly tied to this. Our economy, our loans, our bankings system, our companies. All tied to China.

Why shouldn't the empire state building honor China? I mean, heck, without China, we'd all be worse off. That's the cold hard facts. We may not like a lot of things about China, but the reality is that China is a soverign nation that isn't a rogue state. They aren't looking to war with us. And they are taking on a more global view and becoming a lot more of a positive nation to deal with. Still got a way to go, but they are headed in the right direction.

 

Very well put Sweet Lou

 

I'm not sure why this is being celebreated here. I don't really care, but it's weird.

 

when did you piss off chinese posters? i didn't see anything negative from you. were you New Yorker before? if so, that's a big change in view.

 

It doesn't, and I guess I'm not sure why you think it did. In fact, I thought I made it clear that I was only addressing your specific claim about you getting "A LOT OF flak for talking badly about communist government and Mao".

My only point was that when old people revere Mao and "the good old days", it doesn't speak to the intrinsic quality of his leadership or the intrinsic value of what he did for China.

 

Can't have a thread on subject of China without a Sam Fisher vs PRC supporters debate.

 

I did - and I did it intentionally. I was New Yorker before. Honestly, I was a troll just having fun to get a rise out of people. Boredom would be my excuse. Would have stayed retired, but it was rocketsjudoka that convinced me to come back and just post what I thought without trying to mess with people's heads.

 

No I am not advocating turning a blind eye. We need to put pressure on China regarding it's human rights record. If China can't demonstrate a modern world civility to it's own populations, how can it become a nation that is to serve as an example on how nations should be? How can China be a leader unless it reforms some of these citical problems.

The U.S. could easily help China be a cleaner, leaners, and more advanced economic machine. But the U.S. is still to afraid. Irony is that our enemies are much closer to home. China has no interest in doing anything that will stend the markets craching.

Right now, it's up to Prez Obama to leader the military to a higher awayness and skill level.