Ok, let's kill this one before it gets too far. You can't trade Cato and the Rockets pick (#9) for the first pick of the draft. Here's why: 1. Cato will make about $5.3M next year. 2. Cato is a Base Year compensation player, so if the Rockets trade him,they can only get 50% of his salary in return. 3. Draft choices don't count in terms of salary matching in trades (heypartner, this is the last time that I give you props for this rule) What does that mean? In that deal Houston gives up $5.3M in salary and gets no salary back. Trading down is always allowed, so it works from Houston's side. From NJ's side, they give up nothing and take on $5.3M in salary. The only way this could be done is if NJ had around $4.5M in cap space. They don't so the deal doesn't work. So, how about if we alter the deal and NJ throws in some $4.5M in throw-ins to make it work from their side? Well, they need to throw in $4.5M to make it work, but then they've exceeded the $2.65 that Houston is allowed to receive for Cato, so it still doesn't work. The only way I see a deal like this working is if NJ includes a salary higher than Cato's (say $7M), then Houston can cover the difference with their trade exception, but a deal like that is highly unlikely. If NJ moves their pick for another draft choice, it's most likely going to be to Chicago or Orlando. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited May 22, 2000).]
You are forgetting about Houston's 4.5 mil trade exception which can be used both ways. This deal would work, though I would not do it. DaDakota ------------------
aelliott, I feel your pain. I too want to nip this NJ speculation in the bud. Unfortunately, I can't agree that is is technically impossible. I think you might be staring at the CBA too much, much like I did in my Mobley error. I don't find as much BYC complexities as you do. First, I agree completely with your statement that NJ must trade someone. But, there are two scenarios where NJ can deal: 1. They can engineer some very fancy three ways, 2. DaDakota is right. The trade exception makes a Cato-for-NJ player possible if that player's salary is within $4.4m of Cato's trade value, and Cato's actual salary is within 15% of the trade value NJ sends away. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 22, 2000).]
If NJ does trade the #1, it will likely be to Chicago for the #4 and #7 picks. Chicago has made it clear that they want Mihm and NJ is posturing right now that they will indeed select Mihm. Either way, I see Mihm going #1 unless a team that really wants Kenyon Martin offers New Jersey a can't refuse deal and the #9 and Cato is not a can't refuse deal. ------------------
heypartner, As I said in my previous post, it's possible but only if NJ trades us more salary that it gets. The trade exception does not work both ways as DaDakota stated. Our trade exception only appies if we trade up. It won't help if NJ is trading up. If NJ offered us a $2M player and the #1 for Cato & the #9, it wouldn't work (even though that player's salary is well within $4.4M of Cato). From the NJ side, they would be trading up more than 15% in salary, so they'd need cap room or an exception to cover the difference. Houston's trade exception can't be used to help NJ trade up. It's only allows the Rockets to trade up. The only way around this is (as I said originally) is for NJ to send us more salary than we send them. Then our trade exception comes into play. So, unless NJ wants to throw somebody like Marbury into the deal it's not going to happen. ------------------
aelliott, Forget about what DaDakota said. Your statement that NJ has to trade more salary than it gets is not true. They only have to be within 15%. What is this $7m thing about? That scenario, as defined in your first post, works. NJ is within the 15% rule, so they are OK. We are OK because we have a trade exception. Both sides are OK. All we can really say to dismiss Cato for #1 trade talk is: 1. NJ must send $4.5m in trade value to receive Cato 2. Will they do that?...not without a juicy 3-way. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 22, 2000).]
heypartner, What is this $7m thing about? What $7M thing are you refering to? You're correct that NJ would only have to be within 15% of Cato's salary, rather than above it. Realistically though, that 15% wouldn't make much difference to the fact that the $4.5M in salary would most likely be a deal breaker. Do you agree that the trade exception can only be used to allow the Rockets to trade up in salary and that it can't be used to allow the other team to trade up? If so, then you need to alter your "The trade exception makes a Cato-for-NJ player possible if that player's salary is within $4.4m of Cato's trade value" statement. Or was that what you were doing when you said "NJ must send $4.5m in trade value to receive Cato". We do seem to be in agreement that a NJ/Hou 2 way deal isn't likely to happen. I think a more realistic scenario is to target Chicago's 2nd pick (#7) or to stay at #9 and hope Miller or Miles falls to us. We gotta hope that Tsakalidis,Przybilla or Alexander go in the top 8. My personal favorite would be for Chicago to reach for a SG with the #7 and take the hometown hero Q Richardson. It's a long shot, but come on,Trajan Langdon in the lottery? ------------------
The Cavs need a outside shooter pretty badly, that's the reason for taking Langdon. I would expect them to take another shooter this year again like Courtney or DerMarr(whichever one is left) with SG being on of their bigger weaknesses. ------------------ Check out the new and improved Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited May 22, 2000).]
aelliott, Yes, I agree. NJ can't use our trade exception, only we can. I don't know what DaDakota meant by "it works both ways". But I think he was really remarking that your scenerio (that I quoted) was doable. That's where I agree with him. As far as your question concerning what you quoted me saying, yes my complete sentence was to show NJ ALSO has a responsible to send away salary within 15% of Cato's actual salary. I also agree that NJ won't send us the necessary salary to be within 15% of Cato (the $4.5m you mention). There are just way too many other better trades are the table for them, most certainly. Yes. NJ would be foolss to trade the #1 to us in a 2-way. We just don't have enough to offer to be competitive with all the other trades they must be receiving at this time. I TOTALLY agree. I'd like to help you put this to rest. Unfortunately IMO, your approach using the CBA to deny an NJ trade is not the strongest argument. To me, the strongest argument is shaking this BBS into remembering there are many other teams in the NBA that have better offers than us. Still, there is simply no denying the power of our trade exception in helping 3-ways happen. But, even in some blockbuster Popeye-style 3-way, I believe like you there is no way in hell we outcompete for the #1, in 3-way or not. Maybe another pick, maybe one even involving NJ, but we won't get the #1 in the deal.
Houston's trade exception allows us to take on more salary than would normally be allowed. That exception only allows the Rockets to take on more salary, it wouldn't allow NJ to take on more salary. ------------------
aelliott -- Thanks for explaining that .... I was wondering exactly what a first round pick was worth. I assumed (and I'm guessing this is wrong) that it had a range value being that a pick at #1 would be something like 3 years 12 million or whatever, but guess not. So the reason past deals, such as last year's Jonathan Bender for Antonio Davis Draft day deal, is because the team taking the contracted player (in this case Davis) is because they have cap room to do it (which Toronto did) ? ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
So the reason past deals, such as last year's Jonathan Bender for Antonio Davis Draft day deal, is because the team taking the contracted player (in this case Davis) is because they have cap room to do it (which Toronto did) Clutch, That's correct. Toronto was able to fit Davis' contract under the cap, so there was no 15% rule for this deal. It's also how Indy ended up with their trade exception. For the purpose of the trade, they dealt away Davis' salary and took nothing back (resulting in a trade exception). ------------------
I see on NBATalk that Stromile Swift hasn't signed with an agent because he's afraid the Clips will draft him. That should get the Houston/Clippers trade proposals going in cc.net ------------------
Why is Stromile holding out? Doesn't he know the Clips have rented high lottery positions for life? He may as well come out. ------------------ ?
CATO AND THE #9??? COME ON! TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAPPEN OK. BTW, CANT BLAME STROMILE. ------------------ KISS The Floor Beneath ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
