CNNSI - Players who will exceed expectations (David Andersen)

lol, i expect him to open up the paint for brooks with his outside shooting.

so if he can do that and then some he will exceed my expectations.

 

I'd respond to this foolishness, but I don't want to beat a dead bird.

 

Maybe he did. I'm not sure. If he can pull it off then that gives the Rockets even more flexibility but I'm skeptical. He is awfully light.

I remember when Shane was traded to the Rockets JVG tried him at PF (not sure if he started but he logged minutes there) and he got absolutely murdered. I imagine he is significantly stronger (and a bit heavier) that Ariza.

 

You're thinking of the Utah game? Shane didn't get murdered.

 

Yes he did. I remember when people thought shane could play power forward to space the floor. The utah game 1 ended that cause boozer was killing him. Then coach went to hayes as a result.

 

Except Shane wasn't guarding Boozer that game. I even created a thread about it at the time, because people kept arguing that's what had happened.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=119751

It was Yao guarding Boozer for the most part, as usual regardless of who the PF starting alongside has been. Yao can't guard Okur at the 3-point line.

 

Shane didn't defend Boozer,but he was pulled out as a PF very quickly after a few games in his 1st season with the Rockets under JVG. JVG had said to Juwan that he would be coming off the bench and Shane would be the starter at the 4,but he had to change his strategy once he realized that Shane wouldn't cut it as a PF.

 

Uh yeah he did. He looked like a boy against men. It seems I also remember a lot of talk (from the Rockets) about him playing PF when he was acquired. That talk died after the Utah game.

 

Not to derail the thread but my original point was that Ariza probably cannot play PF because Battier could not. I don't think Battier's inability to play PF can really be argued.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2006_4223559

"After one game the Rockets changed the starting lineup, starting Chuck Hayes at power forward and moving Shane Battier to small forward and Tracy McGrady to guard.

Coach Jeff Van Gundy wanted to keep a range-shooting power on the floor, but thought he was sacrificing too much defense and rebounding. "

 

You said Battier got murdered. I watch that game very closely a second time, and even charted what each player did on the defensive end. Battier did not get murdered, and he was not guarding Boozer. People assumed that because Boozer went off that game and got 24 and 19, and because Battier was penciled in as our starting PF, that Battier was responsible. Not so, if they paid attention to who was guard who.

See previous thread I linked to, and the following thread where I posted even more details on this game as far as defensive responsibility:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=119799&highlight=Defensive

 

you should have sent your analysis to JVG before he canned Battier as the starting PF.

 

Van Gundy is a defensive minded coach who also put strong emphasis on defensive rebounding. He likes perimeter shooting 4's, but clearly he was conflicted. Such is basketball -- you're not always going to get everything you want. I had no problems with him sliding Shane back to SF and starting Chuck. It strengthened our perimeter defense, and put another very solid defender/rebounder on the floor.

I wasn't arguing that Shane should have remained a PF. Just that he was not the one being exploited (or murdered) when we played Utah that one game.

 

If Hayes truly is as great a help defender as you make him out to be, he'd be getting starter minutes like Ben Wallace. Heck, at the very least, he'd be getting backup minutes from the 134 year old Mutumbo.

You can point to all the specific instances you like. I just need to point to his playing time, or severely lack thereof. Plenty of defensive minded stiff in this league gets starts at center, due to the dearth of talent at the position. I trust the Rockets coaching staff/management when they obviously tried to upgrade the position, first with Gortat, then with Anderson. Rather than posters on this message board.

 

From Houston Chronicle:

"After one game the Rockets changed the starting lineup, starting Chuck Hayes at power forward and moving Shane Battier to small forward and Tracy McGrady to guard.

Coach Jeff Van Gundy wanted to keep a range-shooting power on the floor, but thought he was sacrificing too much defense and rebounding. "

You can argue semantics with me all night but it looks to me like the coach thought he was pretty bad at PF. When you're known for being a defensive wizz and the coach pulls you because you don't bring "defense or rebounding" I think it's safe to say you got murdered.

 

True but his rebounding is essential and would be badly needed on defense. His offense is a plus.

 

Mutombo played in 9 regular season games. Chuck played in 71.

 

You mean as Rick Adelman made him out to be? When you say that Chuck Hayes doesn't provide help defense, that's simply not accurate. Don't act like the coaching staff/management are on board with that opinion. They certainly are not.

Chuck Hayes, being only 6'6 and having limited reach and jumping ability, is not an ideal defensive center. He's obviously no Dwight Howard (who the hell is in today's league?). But to suggest "he's not a help defender" is just plain wrong. There's different facets to help defense, and Chuck is very, very good at moving his feet and closing off driving lanes. His understanding of defensive schemes and where he needs to be in help situations is extremely high. This isn't a message board opinion. This is what the coaching staff and management believes, if you actually paid attention.

 

We're obviously talking about two different things here. You're mentioning help defense in terms of the type of help defense that perimeter players need to excel at. Being able to switch on pick and rolls. Get in position to help out a teammate. I don't disagree with that. Chuck can guard even wing players at times.

But that's immaterial because I was responding to a post about Chuck as the STARTING CENTER. Do you honestly think Adelman believes Chuck and shut off penetration and clean up guards' defensive breakdowns when he mans the middle?

 

Durvasa, all I know is boozer couldn't be contained that night. Now, i'm not sure he scored all his points on shane, but I do remember the post up for easy scores.

On the chuck hayes help defense, I think he is a good help defender. He plays the pick and roll great because he shows strong and can recover, but when teams go over the top or go to the hole, there isn't a fear of a blk or shooting over arms. So when teams attack the rim, they see him,scola, and landry at the rim, but they don't change their degree of difficulty when approaching the goal. I think it was you duravas that had the stat of opponets conversion % when yao was out and it was very high. You can never fault chuck for being too small with short arms, but there will be and is a huge difference when coming to the rim with a risk of your shot being blocked vs maybe getting a charge.

 

It's not a direct quote, first of all. And "sacrificing too much defense" doesn't necessarily mean specifically at the 4 position. Snyder was a weak defender compared to Battier. Putting Hayes in the lineup and booting out Snyder makes the entire 5-man group better defensively. And, yeah, obviously Battier is not a strong rebounder for a PF, but that wasn't a deciding factor against the Jazz.

In addition to all the defensive tracking I linked to in my above posts, here's something else to consider. With Battier on the floor in that game, the Rockets outscored the Jazz by 8 points. He played 32 minutes that game. That means in the 16 minutes he was not on the floor, the Rockets were outscored by 18 points. And yet I'm supposed to believe the Rockets lost because Battier got murdered? Uh huh.

I just can't take your non-JVG quote and conclude Battier got murdered on the defensive end. Particularly because I watched that game twice, tracked what Battier and the rest did on defense in detail, and therefore know Battier did his job quite well. I believe JVG knew this too. He had his reasons for switching to a more traditional lineup, but it wasn't because Battier performed poorly.