Now you've seriously lost it. You're comparing KG to McGrady? Wow. Do you seriously think current and former coaches/players/GM's think of KG the way McGrady's think of him. Please find the quotes from McGrady's past where he is described as being a fearless competitor, a real leader and a tireless worker. ok go!!!!
Absolutely, I have known a few famous people that have surrounded themselves with "yes" men and they ultimatly stop listening to people telling them the truth and it hurts their decision making overall. That is what it looks like from the outside that Tmac was doing. Grover's sole source of income is not Tmac, and thus can be more truthful and honest and Tmac can see what he has done for others and go in with trust etc. It is a positive step forward, IMO. DD
i never said that. READ WHAT I WROTE. i'm simply saying you dn't really judge what people say so easily. kg is obviously 2-3 levels above tmac in terms of work ethic and fire. everyone knows that. but tracy is no lazy slouch who just does jack. you don't become an all-world player doing that. no natural talent can do that. and if tracy was so "lazy," i ask you the same question again: name me another year where he did not come in shape? give me one damn year please.
LOL! From wrecking shop at the local Y' a week after knee surgery to 'understanding how to work with people,' you knew it was only a matter of time before the obligatory Dakota anecdotal evidence reared its head.
BTW - this is where you take the subject at hand and switch the subject to DD, but as to your point.... I have no evidence cabbage, I am just reading what I see into the situation. I am not saying it is right, but that is what it looks like to me. You can feel free to think what you like based upon your anecdotal evidence. I mean this is an internet message board, we are all just discussing what we think.....there is rarely any real tangible evidence, is there? Just opinion based upon each of our own life experience. Obviously, your life and mine are very different..... DD
Dave78, just I told DD last year about the dual rehab and the situation and wasn't believed. He did rehab last year and rehabbed hard but it is very,very hard to simulate runing motion or cardio when ur arms can't move. I'm not making excuses, i'm just saying put your arm in a sling and try to run. Anyone that has ever done extensive training knows the faster your arms pump, the faster your legs move. They work in unison and if you have a busted shoulder,its different. I do agree that he probably shouldn't have had the hall guy as a trainer as he gotten older. Those older football players try different methods as they get older because the same training only works the same muscle group. The training kobe does now isn't the same training he did just a few years back. He's doing something similar to what lance armstrong did and thus he's gotten better as he's gotten older. Your body needs dikfferent things as you mature or get older. This debate will go back and forth and because tracy invokes such hatred or harsh thoughts, there aren't a lot of people that can be objective or positive. I said early on he would be back early and ready and people didn't believe me. I still think the management is chasing waterfalls and with this whole Tracy-Yao combo anyway. I wish they would just cut bait and start over, but its apparent they're not going to do. I think what management sees is some of the value guys they love aren't that valuable to the rest of the league. They also see unless the trade their leader shane and relinquish the rights to tracy and scola and say 10 hail marys, the grandiose thoughts of getting a high caliber free agent in is a pipe dream. Fans have been led to thought the rockets would be players in this bogus game of fantasy hoops, but in the end the only guy and best guy will be a discounted Tracy who likes playing with the slowest man in the league and who teammates know that in the playoffs he performs.Guys around the league really,really like tracy and Les loves tracy. They have better chance of getting guys with tracy than without. I know it hurts, but the truth hurts. Just as I accept Yao has a lifetime contract with the rox even if he will be like a anchor on the teams neck in a few yrs, people need to get ready to see tracy play 4 more yrs in a rox uni also. I never said I agree,I'm just accepting of the fact.
So how are you at working on that fact that Battier is staying? Obviously I am just jerking your chain.....lol. DD
for dave's sake, let's "assume" (since that's what most do around here) that he did NOTHING. so one year coming in out of shape, he paints a picture that tracy does that for the most part of his career? how the hell you do nothing or very little in the offseason and do what he does?
There are players that have to work harder for what they get than others, sometimes the good lord reaches down and gives the athletic gift to some people. Sandy Koufax picked up a baseball in his late 40s and was still throwing 97mph......sometimes people are just gifted. I think Tracy is definitly one of the gifted ones.......that is not saying he doesn't work, but that maybe he doesn't have to work as hard as others. DD
1) he had NO jumpshot when he entered the league. ZERO 2) he was extremely skinny when he entered the league. he had to do some work to gain teh body he did. 3) he had ZERO post game when he entered the league. the natural talent got him into the league along with his handles and passing. like most high schoolers who came into the league, he had a terrible jumpshot or anything else other than driving and dunking. but yet he developed an all-around that made him into an all-nba player. give the guy "some credit." after our 04-05 loss to the mavs, he came in with more muscle in 05-06. in 06-07 he came in losing some weight to compensate for that year in 07-08, he came into the best shape of his career (demonstrated by his great start before the injuries). last year was a bad year all-around. i have no problem with what people say about tracy, but to extrapolate from a terrible year last year to his entire career is reaching A LOT. tracy does have talent, but he's no god. he had to work to become the player he was and might still is.
No one is saying he didn't have to work but just as you are saying one year you can't extrapolate an entire career, you also can not ignore it, and honestly, it was not just one year. He has been doing some nutty stuff for a long time, and the organization and others have hinted about his poor work ethic, this is not stuff that is unknown. Tracy is not a God, no doubt, but I would also not put him in the "Hard workers" class either..... I am glad he is working hard now, but he could have or rather should have been doing this for years...IMO. DD
Dude, losing 9 family members/friends aint easy to go through...I don't think he cared about anything at all that season, and I couldn't blame him. You are obviously a HUGE tmac hater...atleast critique is shooting %, his leadership, his durability...thats fine. Those are things that he, for the most part. When you criticize his personal decisions dealing with HIS PERSONAL LIFE...you lose credibility. I would love for you to try and please 20,000 people every night, even though people are dying left and right around you...its not easy man. Let it go. He is human, he has emotion, he could've been depressed (a serious problem in America today), its not like he's a doctor saving somebody's life...he's an athlete who is paid to play a game...not exactly changing the world by any means...give the man a break dude.
b/c we have videos of him this year? the shape he's in right now is exactly the same shape he was in to start 07-08, which was only 2 years ago.
Dun cry over spilled milk, man. Everybody makes mistakes, even those who are blessed with a 20 million per year contract.
All that matters is this year and what is done now. Anything in the past has to be thrown in the camp of different time, different surgery, different training regiment, different circumstances, and before a second round appearence. Now we have new players like Ariza, Pops, Andersen, Budinger, and Taylor. Out of one of those guys someone is gonna be real useful. Out of Yao and Tmac chances are one of them is gonna return to relative form. I am betting it is Tmac because of his work ethic that we havent quite seen and the guy who he needed to train him in the first place just like he proved when he found the right back specialist. Tracy has proven before if he has the right motivation and people he can recover from things. In the end I think it doesnt matter. We will have an exciting team of cast of players up and down the roster who can play 10 men to 12 players deep on our roster. Thats a good thing. Tmac will be able to do something in a lineup that stacked because of his training or by the sheer luck of finally having a team that is deep enough to have 2 or 3 guys in front of him that can fill a role for a majority of minutes. While he takes his time or eases his way back. In the meantime Tmac is on his way back and Lakers fans just have to deal with the fact that the Rockets probably are still playoff contenders if he is back.
DD, i'm not going to derail this thread or at least I hope not, but do you think Battier is a hard worker? How come posters call Yao the hardest worker guy in the league, yet he still makes the same mistakes he did as a rookie? There is a thing called working hard and working smart.
You picked KG in an attempt to compare the two based on statements made by those who have worked/played with them. You know what you did and it was dishonest. ONE DAMN YEAR? He gets paid over $20 million each damn year and last year was coming into a situation where the team was poised to really contend this time. You ran out of excuses a long time ago. Just quit.
I'll be the first to admit that I've been extremely critical of T-mac over these last couple of seasons and I'm even guilty of bashing him but I've given it some thought and I've come to the conclusion that it's pointless. It's counterproductive to keep hating/bashing on the guy especially since it looks more and more like he's here to stay at least till the trade deadline if not the whole season and he will be a huge part of any type of success we have this year. The guy's obviously been working hard and he's got a lot of doubters to prove wrong. In the end we as fans are in a "can't lose" situation because he's going to increase his trade value if he plays well and if he plays well we're going to win games. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't play well and he comes off the books at the end of the season. We're in a good spot.
like leebigez said, try running with your shoulder in a sling and see how well you can rehab. Go ask Dwade as well...he told the chronicle that he went through the same thing (having the shoulder and knee surgery around the same time) and tried to rehab them both at the same time, and he barely lasted 50 games and the team went 15-67, I think you should give up trying to find reasons to hate on Tmac...your trying too hard and have been for awhile now.
I never said he does nothing every off-season. In fact, I think he worked his tail off in the summer after 04-05. He did not, however, come into shape last season but that's not my only problem with him. I'm getting a little tired of chronicling them since I've done it dozens of times. You know what? You're right. He has been the best Tmac he could be. He's been a tireless worker, competitor and leader. He plays through pain, personal issues and has a competitive nature that is on par with the all time greats. He will be a first ballot HOF player who was known for doing so much with little physical talent.
