in case u dont know, i just wanna tell u that Baron has a 41.7FG% and he is a 58% free throw shooter.
He still threatens to score... which is why I like Francis and Marbury too. Hybrid point guards are cool; I'm not a traditionalist or anything. Charles Barkley used to lead the team in assists and that was fine by me. One other thing in Francis' defense is that pure point guards like Brandon, Stockton and Miller will come off scott clean just b/c of asst/to ratios. When you factor in a player like Baron or Steve's ability to score, that's when you let the belt out on their asst/to ratio... but it's still difficult to factor in "what's more important"... scoring or distribution... particularly in a thing that says 'top ten pgs in the league'. That's why I think there's so much variability in these lists. If Steve can just alter the asst/to ratio a little bit, and control his team a bit better, yeah by all means, he's one of the top young points. Let's hope he gets better. Turnover scoring athletic points... better be able to stay athletic, or else they'll look just like a short injury prone shooting guard when their career is over.
1.) Gary Payton 2.) Jason Kidd 3.) Steve Francis 4.) Mike Bibby 5.) Andre Miller 6.) John Stockton 7.) Sam Cassell 8.) Terrell Brandon (at full health) 9.) Baron Davis 10.) Stephon Marbury
yes, but he cant do much when he gets to de line(poor FT%), and he is not a too big threat b/c he cant shoot the ball. unlike steve.
I think Baron and Steve shoot about the same from the field, Baron's better from behind the arc.... but the ft% is something that Baron has to get over... He does so many other things better than Francis that it's kind of a hard comparison (steals, tos, assists). Let's just hope that we have a new offense to watch this year. It's hard to tell Steve's passing ability when he plays ping pong 2" off the floor, drives, and passes to coworkers that can't shoot the ball.
achebe i agree with ya, our stagnant offense makes it hard to judge just how much steve needs to improve his passing. i think in a more open offense with better shooters(ie healthy rice,taylor, now nachbar) steve can jack up the assists. either way i think we can win consistently with him at 5-7 apg as long as we get them somewhere else. baron isn't exactly gonna threaten the league lead in assists either. we can't afford these 3 assist games or no assists at the half and our new aquisitions will change this. i don't want to argue between steve and baron cause i think they're about as equal as 2 players get but stat-wise i'm pretty sure steve has the slight edge. (ppg, rpg, ft%)
1. Kidd 2. Payton 3. Bibby 4. Francis (will be #1 soon) 5. Baron Davis 6. Steve Nash 7. Andre Miller 8. Sam Cassell (could be higher) 9. Stockton 10. Marbury * - Stoudamire, Bobby Jackson, Derek Fisher
I do not agree! only this year b/c of the injury. steve is a 45%percent shooter(was nearly 40% behind the arc), and baron never passed 42%FG! basied, all baron can do is layup layup layup and dunk! steve definitely has a better ball feel than baron. when you are talking about the ball feel for baron, he will never never never be a good shooter(just like shq who never can shoot FTs)
I know steve is reading this and steve destroyed kidd both times last year 1.francis 2.davis 3.miller 4.nash 5.kidd 6.bibby I cant believe rocket fans didnt put steve in the top two.
Because in reality vs fandom, Francis isn't one of the top two points in the league. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton, in order, hold those spots right now. Following behind them: Andre Miller, Baron Davis, Mike Bibby (though it remains to be seen if he suffers from Austin Croshere disease), Francis, Nash, Stockton, Marbury, and Tony Parker. The next tier, in order: Darrell Armstrong (perpetually underrated), Sam Cassell, Jamaal Tinsley, Damon Stoudamire, Derek Fisher. The rest are aways behind. Remains to be seen where these players rate: Frank Williams (potential middle tier), Jay Williams (potential 7-10, for now), Grant Hill (if healthy, at or near the top of this list due to his triple-double ability).
The 2001-02 Rockets were... 25-25 when Francis played 35 minutes or more, 2-13 when, though active, he played 34 minutes or less, and 1-16 when he was injured. Can you find this correlation with any other NBA point guard - ever - or are Moochie Norris and Tierre Brown really that bad?
This argument doesn't hold any water because racking up assists is the point guard's job. How is that "unselfish?" It makes sense coming from a scoring position, such as the center spot (see wit chamberlain leading the league in assists once) or off guard, but when dishing out is one of the requirements of the position, how exactly is that "unselfish?" The point guard is only doing what is expected of him- invariably the more he racks up, the greater the acclaim, the glory, the credit, the adulation he gets. It's like a person humbling himself in order to be exalted. ~the Absolute~
1. Jason Kidd - Plays like Magic Johnson, I think Johnson was more of an offensive threat scoring wise though. Best court vision in the league by far. 2. Gary Payton - Best Defensive point guard in the league, and has virtually carried his team to the playoffs since Shawn Kemp left. 3. Steve Francis - Probably the best all around point guard in the league, but needs to develop a defensive tenacity like G.P. 4. Steve Nash - Best scoring point guard in my opinion, but he can also create scoring opportunities for his teammates. 5. Mike Bibby - I dont know if he's good because of the great players he has around him , but he has certainly made the Kings a championship contender and Jason Williams could not do that. 6. Baron Davis - Explosive, quick , pretty good defender, and has a great three point shot, no real weakness in his game. 7. Andre Miller - Second best "pure" point guard in the league , cant shoot outside 15 feet though. 8. Stephon Marbury - Great scorer, personally, I see him as more of a 2 than a 1, he looks to score first and pass second. 9. Sam Cassell - Good all round, scores, passes, and has good court vision, defense is probably his weakness. He is a good leader though. 10. John Stockton - This guy might be playing in the league until hes 50.
Oh my God...Mike Bibby sucks. Just because he had one good playoff series doesn't mean he's a top 5 PG. Also, just because he's better than Jason "We suck...we suck" Williams doesn't mean he's a top 5 PG.
weakness, not a big offensive threat, no need for double team(coz he suck in shooting and FTs) his 3pt shot is just avg
Baron Davis is not a bad shooter at all. He seems to have some sort of mental block at the FT line though. I don't consider Baron the scoring threat that Steve is, but he is right on Steve's tail.
1. Steve Francis tie- Gary Payton 3. Kidd- I think he is overrated. Francis and Payton both could've taken the Nets to the finals. 4. Steve Nash 5. Baron Davis 6. Sam Cassell 7. Stephon Marbury 8. Andre Miller 9. Mike Bibby
1. Gary Payton 2. Steve Nash 3. Jason Kidd 4. Steve Francis 5. Andre Miller 6. Baron Davis 7. Mike Bibby 8. Stephon Marbury 9. John Stockton 10. Terrell Brandon
Man, thank god that Tony Parker, top 10 pg crap is winding down. I don't care how old "Jesus" is. He's still a non jumping little b*stard. reg. season apg. 4.0 playoffs: 4.3 He sucks. embrace the hate...
You might be right, but I put Bibby up so high because he's the 2nd best "pass first" PG last year behind Kidd, even though Stockton is still among the best. Bibby has put up good numbers his career, even on a bad team. For now he's among the elite.
