Check out the video at the bottom of this page where Rudy talks about Yao: http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Rockets_War_Room_Video-48026-34.html Sound like Rudy's been reading HP's posts about the UCLA cut? Paraphrasing, here's what Rudy had to say about Yao's effect on the offense next year: - the majority of the offense will no longer be drives (read: ISOs) and pick and roll (which was a somewhat odd thing to say since in his previous breath, RT talked about how big a target Yao is on the PnR) - more post ups - more cutting - they're working on a 5 man offense with more movement "but not a passing game" - and in the first rudy video, he talks about getting out and running much more The "not a passing game" seems to contradict the 'fewer drives" comment and the "more cutting" comment, but maybe that's just me. The key, of course, is having everyone healthy to implement the changes (Rudy gave a caveat on the movement offense -- "if they can get it'). Some of this, I recall, was talked about last year, but we still ended up with a steady diet of ISOs. I wonder if Yao's late arrival to camp will delay any big changes. I also wonder if Cato's starting job is already gone, since I just don't see him being able to execute in a high post offense (Rudy raved about Yao's ability to make the touch pass, something Cato's never done in his life). We'll have to see how it pans out, but the days of "dribble dribble dribble drive" might be over. I could live with some 110, 115 point offensive explosions. Time for a fun brand of basketball once again.
The whole "drive it in and dish it out" offense is simply a flawed concept to begin with. Once the guard is in the lane with three guys surrounding him, it's difficult to pass the ball out to an outside shooter without an opposing player getting his hands on the ball. Add that to the fact that nobody could consistently hit the outside jumper last year, and we had big problems. Like it or not, Cato will be the starting center on opening night. Ming won't be available until mid October at the earliest. In fact, I see an opening night lineup of Steve, Cat, Rice, Thomas, and Cato, which I think is the same as last season. The more things change...
I was really interested in this too. Do you think they want to run the offense through Yao just as L.A. runs through Shaq and Sactown goes through Vlade? Maybe Rudy's just talking about the longterm, but it sounds like they're very ready to use Yao from the get-go. Where are all the play fanatics? I don't know jack about this stuff. I want to see you what you guys thinks.
heypartner, how about bringing back some of those good old flash diagrams? UCLA cut? Something more complicated? Better yet, some of the possibilities of the motion offense Rudy's envisioning.
I think they SHOULD run the offense through Yao like how Sacramento ran it through Webber, not Vlade. Yao could stay in the high post and we could run UCLA cuts. If they back off Yao, we already know he can make that J probably as good if not better than Webber. It will clear the lane and we know Steve and Cat can finish. The drive and dish out isn't flawed if you have a PG that can get the ball out. Steve CAN get the ball out, the problem was Morris and them would brick everything. I've seen enough of Nachbar to know he can make those shots and Rice can if healthy and has his legs. Cuttino obviously can as well. Rudy contradicts himself too much. He doesn't want a passing offense but doesn't want any driving. I hope he doesn't use the flex offense too much (it'd be okay when we have players that move well without the ball), but rather something similar to Saramento. Oh yeah, that triangle offense is such BS...It's boring but it works if you have a Kobe or Michael...I don't think we should do that Pick and roll would work EXCELLENT with Yao I hope RUdy has more innovation than last year, just keeping Griffin outside and running picks on the top of the 3 over and over... Iso's wouldn't be so great, but a 2 man game would be nice with Cat/Steve & Ming...but I don't know about that "I also wonder if Cato's starting job is already gone, since I just don't see him being able to execute in a high post offense (Rudy raved about Yao's ability to make the touch pass, something Cato's never done in his life). " Cato should basically be there to get rebounds and blocks. When people forget about him, Steve can throw that patented alley-oop to Cato for a good 3-4 dunks a game - more post ups I'm guessing he's talking about Griffin. Yao will be able to post-up more than Cato ever did as well. I guess we could give Yao some opportunities to try out his sky hook here, but I like him being in the high-post opposed to low-post. THe problem is, who will get rebounds? Griffin & Mo need to get rebounds, NOT STEVE...If Yao sits in the high post and then is still able to get rebounds it will be crazy the amount of fast breaks we get since he truly is a great outlet passer - more cutting I'd like to see how if there's no passing game and no dribbling. There has to be one or the other. Obviously dribbling wasn't working too well so let's listen to Murph and get some BALL MOVEMENT, swing it around the key while players are coming off curls and double screens for jumpers and others are flashing backdoor - they're working on a 5 man offense with more movement "but not a passing game" I'm glad it's a 5 man offense and no more one-on-one BS. Sometimes we should let Steve and Cat get ISO's but not for the majority like previously. 2man game with Ming would be good. The guards can work with him and Nachbar/Rice can get on the other wing for an open 3...
Remember guys Rudy could not teach a whole lot with all the injuries. I dont care how good a team is if they don.t play together they will not develop teamwork. No Teamwork - No Team plays.
Woofer, I wish you were right but knowing Rudy, Rice is as good as penciled in. Same thing for Cato. Ming not getting in a full training camp basically guarentees Cato's job is secure. I'm not even convinced Ming would start if he came in and looked like Jabbar for the last two weeks of training camp. Rudy starts his veterans, always has always will. Griff, however, is a different story. He's not a rook anymore. I think he has a genuine oppertunity to win the starting nod. I don't know if he will, cause Thomas is probably working his ass off. MoT is a total wild card in the PF picture, if he works his way into shape....he probably starts. I don't know what we'll do with three potential starters there, but I guess thats a good problem to have. Makes me think we've got to be looking at making a trade, but I don't know for who.
Let's see: - More post-ups - Not as much drives and PnR - More cutting - 5 man offense with movement, but not a 'passing offense' My guess: A high-low offense similar to, ironically, the UCLA offense and the Jazz's system. Maybe a little 2-man game on the strong side with movement on the weakside. I guess what Rudy means by a 'passing' offense is the Princeton offense that the Kings and Nets run, i.e. back-door cuts and shooters coming off screens.
OK, the "what's the opening night starting five" tangent is my fault since I wondered out loud about Cato in the first post. But what I'm more interested in is, what will our offense look like given the additions of Yao and Nachbar and given Rudy's (somewhat contradictory) comments yesterday? Rudy wants to push the ball up the floor. I think he sees Nachbar as the finisher we haven't had since Glide. Makes sense to me. If Ming/Griff/Cato/Mo/KT can average 18 boards a game between them, then Stevie, Cat, Rice/Nachbar can take off running. This would be a huge improvement over last year, and it seems very doable. He's talking about cutting, motion, and more posting up. If Ming is the passer he's supposed to be, he's the ideal guy for a high post/cutting scheme. He could see over the entire defense, just waiting for a cutter to the hoop. Can you imagine a Ming to Francis alley-oop? With Ming holding the ball over his head, he'd be throwing to the rim on a straight line! And, if there's no cutter, Ming can easily pop the 18 footer. Then there are the post-up possibilities. Think of Hakeem getting the ball in the post dumping off to a streaking Horry. Yeah, it's waaaaay early to compare Ming/Nachbar to Hakeem/Horry, but at least it's a possibility. It never was with Cato. Also, if he's talking post-up, you've got to think that Rudy's going to be posting Mo and Eddie this year. Please let this be an indication that Eddie's not going to be spending his time spotting up downtown. Of course, if Yao is in constant foul trouble, the scheme is in trouble. Who on the second unit can execute the high post? I'm just trying to decipher Rudy's comments, hoping that we'll be an exciting team to watch and that our small forwards won't be relegated to spot up three point shooters. But maybe i'm just hearing what I want to hear.
" If Ming/Griff/Cato/Mo/KT can average 18 boards a game between them, then Stevie, Cat, Rice/Nachbar can take off running. This would be a huge improvement over last year, and it seems very doable. " If they could not average 18 between Griffin/ Cato/ and Mo or KT, that would be pathetic. It's almost a certainty that they would average around 25 caroms "He's talking about cutting, motion, and more posting up. If Ming is the passer he's supposed to be, he's the ideal guy for a high post/cutting scheme. He could see over the entire defense, just waiting for a cutter to the hoop. Can you imagine a Ming to Francis alley-oop? With Ming holding the ball over his head, he'd be throwing to the rim on a straight line! And, if there's no cutter, Ming can easily pop the 18 footer. " EXACTLY...I'm sure critics will complain about a 7-5 Center not playing inside, but that is all we need Yao to do. High-post passing, and hitting mid-range J's offensively. Blocks & rebounds, clogging up the middle defensively. If Yao can get offensive rebounds is the key to the whole thing. I don't know how he will if he's playing high-post, but he IS 7 freaking 5. I think Live basically said the general concept: A high-low offense similar to, ironically, the UCLA offense and the Jazz's system. UCLA Cut with Ming & Francis/Cat parallel to Malone/Stockton, except Ming can pass better. If opposing teams get all concerned with the 2-man game, then the ball can be swung to the weak side for Nachbar who's shot looks like money. Maybe a little 2-man game on the strong side with movement on the weakside. Yep, the key is getting players to move. Everyone would complain Mooch would dribble too much last year, but we were running a flex offense where PLAYERS were supposed to move, and the ball was supposed to get to the player when a mismatch ocurred or the defender got lost. Rudy needs to really work with them on spacing and ball movement without dribbling. I don't like his idea of not having dribbling though and not having passing. We should mix it up and keep defenses on their heels. I guess what Rudy means by a 'passing' offense is the Princeton offense that the Kings and Nets run, i.e. back-door cuts and shooters coming off screens. I hope so...The Kings offense would be perfect for us now. Steve is better at finding the open man than Bibby, but his shot is not quite as good but pretty close. Cat's defense is worse, but his offense is way superior. It'd be jumping the gun to say Nachbar is as good as Peja, but he definitely fits similarly to Hedo/Peja, but with more athleticisim. Ming would be playing pretty much identically to Webber. High-post passing and shooting jumpers when the d backs off. Occasional posting up would occur just as Vlade & Webber did. Hopefully with Griffin & MoT/KT there would be a little more however. Mo is more of a 10-18 ft jumpshooter, and KT is more slashing and true post-ups as we all know. It'd be nice to keep all three but who knows what'll happen. Rice is our vet who probably will start, but I'd rather Rudy throw Nachbar in from the start of the season. Hell even Mooch is similar to Bobby Jackson. Cato is better defensively than Pollard and in the end of last season starting to look better offensively as well... So I guess, we'd be almost identical to the Kings, or at least I'd hope so...
This is no contradiction. I'm sure he is referring to The Passing Game in a generic sense. This is based on Bobby Knight's invention that has very limited dribbling, and all 5 players can pass and shoot. This would not utilize the abilities of Francis and Mobley very well, and you can see that in how Isiah Thomas and Bobby Knight were at odds with each other a lot. He is most likely referring to any of a variety of Flex philosophies and possibly Flex-Motion. Just because he says less emphasis on driving does not mean no dribbling. That's a non sequitur. Kidd and Stockton and Magic dribbled a lot, but those were not Passing Games or "driving games." Anyhow, if he is saying it won't be a Passing Game/less driving he is really just saying they are not going to use the 4 out 1 Flex anymore, since it is not what you select for high post games. That doesn't mean there isn't another flex system out there. For intance, The Triangle is what I consider a classic flex system, although no one had coined the word flex until later. You divide the court in half and threaten one side and force them to stop it, then you have ball reversal options to repeat on the opposite side--the flex option...all the while looking for counter plays to defenses that are caught overplaying something (like Francis...hehe). The idea is to force the action and get the defense to commit. imo,, The Passing Game is more about confusing the defense into making a mistake. It isn't forcing the action as much. Another thing we can take to the bank is that he is not talking about Hakeem's offense...not close. He mentions High and Low post. I suspect Ming is going to be the focus of the offense with the ball like Divac/Sabonis...which is something Dennis Lindsey alluded to...but I suspect they won't come out of the gate doing that. He could be talking about Francis doing playmaking while others are running a Hi/Lo game. The easiest way to think of this is a 3-man Game. This is something practiced, where you have a PG, SF and C/PF playing motion on one side of the court. Imagine: (1) Francis on the wing with Griffin and Ming interchanging position between hi/low post while picking for each other; and imagine (2) Griffin on the wing with Francis/Ming picking for each other to free Francis for the pass to get him in the lane. These are classic 3-man Game strategies. And, here's the real test, if you can imagine a motion that cycles through (1) and (2), then you know how Bobby Knight teaches basketball. However, a 24-second makes that very hard. I am definitely betting on some plays using a simple UCLA cut maneuver. I've already seen Ming do that in the videos. Complicating it with full blown UCLA Cut offense is a different story, or something like the Kings, that will take time. <b>A-Train</b> "The whole "drive it in and dish it out" offense is simply a flawed concept to begin with." Tell that to Dallas. I don't buy it being anymore flawed than anything else our team could have ran. The perimeter 4out1in offenses won at least 2 NCAA Titles in a ten yr stretch after the 3-point line came about, and it got to the Final Four more than that. We just never had a good Flex part of the offense nor a good low post threat from the "1" role that is critical for the "4 out 1 in."
I don't think the Nets run Princeton's game. It requires a shooting, passing center who pretty much runs the show. The Kings might indeed be employing some of that offense, but I think of them more as a double high post. And I've definitely seen some Zipper action in it. It reminds me more of European games than Princeton.
Mo Taylor would be good in the high post. Can hit mid-range jumpers, set a good pick, pretty decent passer. And he's not worth a lick on the boards anyway so there's no harm in having him far from the basket. Less sure about Griffin, but I think he could potentially fill that role as well. So, with Cato in, the high-post responsibilities would shift to the PF spot.
High post offense? If Rudy is serious then there's no way that Cato will start, unless MoT is the vet who will man the high post until Ming develops. Otherwise, it is the same old same old. Collier may be a better second unit 5 than Cato if the offense is going to contain any facets of the Flex. Not to go off tangent, but Predrag Savovic was the man in a very efficient FLEX offense run by Hawaii. Heypartner, are you a coach? You seem extremely knowledgeable about the X's and O's of the game, which you articulate quite well. It is my first season coaching a youth team and I wish I had a fraction of your basketball savvy.
I don't care what Rudy says about the offense changing, unless Cato's traded he's starting. No way does Rudy start a rookie over a veteran.
Im not going to believe this for one second. We had pippen stand on the three line all game.We have griffin standing on the three line all game,same as horry,elie,smith,maxwell,drexler This will be the two play offense that rudy will do. Steve iso,or cat iso Next play,dump it into ming or giffin,and have steve/cat/nacbar stand on the three line all game The guy who will suffer most is steve and steve knows it.When we had hakeem,steve hated standing on the three point line thw whole time. You cant have a motion offense when every play is dump it into ming or griffin and have them pass out to open three point line. Odom & steve & butler(8th) now thats a motion offense.
It doesn't have to be a full motion type offense, i just think with ming mid-post gives them the flexibility to still have the baseline open while still posing a low post threat. On ball reversal which is key to a good offense, when Ming re-post or roll into the lane, from 8 ft is a layup for him. The working of the high low game like the spurs a few yrs back is going to be a benefit to all. I think Rudy knows he needs to change up the offense some and now he has the players to do that. I guess i'll be saying this until the season starts, but Ming will have a bigger impact than people anticipate. He's going to be closer to the basket since the lane is regular and not like the international lane. When he rolls with his size and bulk, its going to be easy money. The doubters will see.
