Will any current NBA players tie or eclipse Jordan's 6 rings?

I voted NO ONE for this reason: The question is very misleading. I think the standard for equaling MJ is not 6 rings, but 6 Finals MVP trophies. Kobe's 1st three rings are an accomplishment and they don't win a single one without him, but he wasn't THE MAN. To measure greatness simply by the number of rings means Horry was better than Jordan.

 

Jordan was Finals MVP becasue he did all those things too. He scored, rebounded, played defense, dished out assists, blocked shots, forced steals, etc. He was a scoring machine, but he controled the game at both ends. Much like Duncan in his prime. Well maybe even more so. Duncan tends to get in foul trouble when guarding elite big men. Jordan could stick 95% of all pg's, sg's, or sf's in the league with no problem.

 

D rose

 

Well, I don't think Duncan could help how bad the Cavs were...even Lebron had a bad series and their 2nd best player was Boobie Gibson.

He also can't help that Parker had a favorable matchup and that he was seeing double teams. It would be foolish to not pass the ball to Parker and let him create.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html

He still led the team in scoring and rebounding and blocked shots, and fg% for the season:

20 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.4 bpg, 55 % fg

he also raised that in the playoffs and still led the team:

22 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3 bpg, 52 % fg

-this is including his finals series

Parker was the 2nd best player all year, but was mainly a scoring pg. He averaged under 6 apg all season and playoffs.


Game 1: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706070SAS.html

Duncan has 24 pts, 13 reb, 5 blk, 2 stl, shooting 10/17 fg (59%)

Parker has 27 points, 7 assists, 4 TO, 2 steals, shooting 12/23 (52%)


Game 2: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706100SAS.html

Duncan has 23 points, 9 rebs, and 8 assists, on 9/16 shooting (56%)

Parker has 30 points, 4 rebs, 2 assists, 2 TO, 1 stl, on 13/20 shooting (65%)



Game 3: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706120CLE.html

Duncan has 14 points, 9 rebs, 3 ast, 2 blks, 1 stl on 6/17 shooting (35%)

Parker has 17 pionts, 5 rebs, 3 ast, 3 TO on 7/17 shooting (41%)



Game 4: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706140CLE.html

Duncan has 12 points, 15 rebs, 3 ast, 2 stl, 2 blk, on 4/15 shooting (27%)

Parker has 24 points, 7 rebs, 1 ast, 3 TO, on 10/14 shooting (71%)


I would say Duncan had a big impact on the series. Not so much on scoring, but rebounding, blocking shots, getting steals, and even getting assists (got more assists or tied Parker in 3/4 games.

In all honesty, it was very hard to pick an MVP in an ugly series like that...considering points were very hard to come by, I guess Parker got the award for being able to score a lot in a low scoring series and shoot well.

But, all he really did was score...he didn't do much else.

Duncan didn't score as much as usual and definetily shot worse than usual, but he was still a big impact on rebounds (11.5 rpg in the Finals), and blocked shots (2.25 bpg in the Finals), and even passing (3.75 apg).

I think Duncan did more of the all around stuff and still scored decently at 18.25

18.25 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.75 apg, 2.25 bpg, 1.25 spg, on 44.25 fg% still is a very productive series.

So in my opinion, Duncan should've gotten the award, BUT it was hard to ignore his bad shooting in Cleveland. Parker scored consistantly and shot well throughout the Finals and points were at a premium, so I guess thats why he got it...

But Duncan didn't win because he played bad, he just had 2 bad shooting games. He was still very productive.

 

You want your centerpiece to dominate, not just be productive. And to look at Tony's stats in that series, you can't say TD was definitely robbed of the Finals MVP or that Tony didn't deserve it. Again, it's that sliver of doubt.

Now go back to all of the 6 Bulls titles. Tell me one title out of those 6 that Jordan didn't unequivocally deserve the Finals MVP or that someone else on the Bulls deserved it rather then Jordan.

 

Karl Malone/

 

I'm not dismissing their accomplishments, but I think it's hyperbole to call them the greatest team or something similar. They were never tested in the Finals against a team or a player on their level. The Russell Celts had to beat Wilt consistently. Magic's Lakers had to beat Bird's Celtics. Jordan had to beat who?

 

I agree with you on that...but the closest thing the Bulls ever played to a team like the Cavs was the Sonics in 1996, who were just a bad matchup for most teams out west.

They were good, but they were not mentally tough and they had no dscipline...it was a team coached by George Carl.

But Jordan had a couple of horrible shooting games that series, but Pippen had 4 bad shooting games.

Plus it seems like the Bulls were just toying with the Sonics all series long, and relaxed a little bit when they went up 3-0...Jordan's bad shooting games were game 4 and game 6.

But I do agree with you though.

91- Jordan had a great all around series and was by far the best all around player on the team and the NBA at that time.

92- Jordan outplayed his closest counterpart, and made clutch plays and had a 46 point game on the road

93- set an all time finals record with 41 ppg average.

96- best player for the series

97- game winner in game 1, flu game 5, game winning assist in game 6

98- team won by 42 points in game 3, scored 45 points and hit the game winner in game 6 (also made many clutch plays)

Pippen was solid in every finals with his defense, ball handling and scoring, but he wasn't as consistent as Jordan...therefore Jordan won 6 finals mvps

 

I think you guys are failing to realize how great Jordan was. Jordan's teams consistently won championships without a dominant big man. It may not seem incredible but look at the champions of the last 20-30 years. One thing stands out, they all had really really good big men. Shaq, Duncan, Gasol, Olajuwon, Jabbar, Garnett, etc. Teams with just a dominant guard and a bad center usually do NOT win championships. See: Kobe pre-Gasol.

 

Russell consistently beat Wilt in the Eastern Conference before the finals...only beat him once in the finals in 69 with LA.

But Jordan beat the Bad Boys Pistons, who were the 2 time defending champs (Isaiah was 30, Dumars was only 28, Rodman was the reigning DPOY)
They went through the Bulls the previous 3 years to reach the Finals as well, and they beat the Bulls, even the year before with Phil Jackson coaching them and Pippen having his 1st All Star year.

Consistently beat very good Cavs teams coached by Lenny Wilkins and Mike Fratello. Always very good defensively and had weapons in Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper (pre-knee surgeries), Larry Nance, Craig Ehlo (very good role player), and shot blockers in John Williams and Tree Rollins.

They also beat the Knicks numerous times who featured Patrick Ewing, Xavier McDaniel, Mark Jackson, John Starks, Gerald Wilkins, Anthony Mason, and Charles Oakley. As good a defensive team you would find in NBA history. The Bulls always struggled with great centers, and yet they beat this team year after year. They took the Bulls to 7 games in 92, and took a 2-0 lead with HCA in 93, but the Bulls won both times.

They also beat other teams such as the 76ers led by Charles Barkley more than once, the Hawks who had Wilkins, and Milwakee who featured a great defensive player in Alvin Robertson and were very good in the 80's.


Then they dominate the NBA season by winning 72 games and lose only 13 times all year including the playoffs. Only the Pacers beat them twice in the season, and the Sonics in the finals.

They beat Miami twice with Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, Kurt Thomas, P.J. Brown, Dan Majerle and were coached by Pat Riley. In 8 games, the Bulls only lose 1 time in 2 years vs. the Heat.

They also swept the Orlando Magic led by Shaq, who was dominant that year, and had the best and biggest point guard in 6'7 Penny Hardaway, and the team had 5 players averaging double figures. Only one game was close, and in that game the Bulls overcame an 18 point 2nd half deficit (game 2). The Magic won 62 games that year, and the Bulls embarrassed them.

They also beat the Hawks who featured DPOY Dikembe Mutombo and the leader in steals, Mookie Blaylok...but it wasn't even close.

They also dominated a Hornets team that had 6 players averaging double figures, and had Bobby Phills, David Wesley, and Anthony Mason to guard Jordan, and had one of the top shooters in the game in Glen Rice and Dell Curry. They beat them in 5.

The hardest team the Bulls faced the 2nd time around was the Pacers, who were basically what the Pistons were this decade...a title contender year in and year out. They had great defense, great rebounders, a solid and smart point guard in Mark Jackson, a post up option in 7'4 Rik Smis, and legendary shooters in Chris Mullin and Reggie Miller, and a scoring option off the bench in Jalen Rose. Derrik McKey was also a long and solid defender.

Reggie Miller scored without the ball majority of the time, and he was the only one in the 90's who could compete with Jordan in the clutch offensively.
They took the Bulls to 7 and the Bulls pulled it out in the last seconds.

This team made the Eastern Conference Finals 4 times in 6 years before finally making it to the Finals in 2000. This team was solid.

The Pistons had just won 2 titles in a row, and if they beat the Bulls, may have won their 3rd. Knicks could've won the title in 92 or 93 had they beaten the Bulls...the one year they beat the Bulls (without Jordan) they made it to the Finals.

They were really contenders. The Magic, Heat, and Pacers were also true contenders as well...if they beat Chicago, they had a strong chance to win the title.

Notice the one constant..."If they beat Chicago"...6 times teams said that. They kept contenders from having a chance (Miami, Orlando, Detroit)...they only lost 1 time to those 3 teams in their title runs. (swept Detroit in 91, Orlando in 96)

They beat a hungry Pacers team that was playoff tested, they beat the Knicks 4 times in the 90's, once without HCA.

They made really good teams into average teams, with the exception of the Pacers and Knicks.

The Bulls simply took care of business and Jordan led them there...he never lost with HCA, he never lost a 1st round game in the Bulls 6 title runs (6 sweeps), and he even won 2 championships without Home Court Advantage.

Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe cannot say that. (when they led their team...Wade led Miami in 06)

Also, in the finals he faced

Magic Johnson and Worthy
Drexler, Porter, Kersey, Duckworth, B. Williams, and Ainge
Barkley(MVP), KJ, Majerle, Ainge

96-legit case of a weak team (but they did win 64 games and had DPOY Payton, Kemp, Shrempf, and Hawkins
Stockton, Malone, Hornacek twice...
(won 64 games in 97 and had the wrong MVP in Malone and won 62 games in 98 and had HCA)

He did face good competition...he can't help that Olajuwon and the Rockets were screwed over in Seattle and that we peaked when he retired. Olajuwon was as close as he got to an equal in the 90's.

 

Great point...forgot to point that out as well. Look at how much better they got with a less athletic and a bit less explosive scoring Jordan from 96-98...

Once they got a great post presence (not scorer) in Rodman, they really took off. His rebounding and defense was very underrated for the Bulls.

 

Basically the Cavs defense focused on negating the ball to Duncan and keeping Ginobili out of the paint. They also focused on preventing the pick n roll between these two.

As inteligent teams do, Popp didn´t care a single bit who was going to get the MVP and called a Go-To Parker strategy that worked cause teh Cavs have no personel ready for him.

They adjusted for game 4 where they were still focused on Duncan but switched Ginobili defenders to Parker, Ginobili burned them for 26 points scoring 9 of the last 13 points of game 4.

 

Basically, Parker won the MVP because the cavs' PGs were too weak.

btw, I think MJ was so great because his opponents were great too!

 

If Shaq and Kobe had stayed together in LA they probably had the best chance. But not now.

 

And he did it on 3 different teams. How many people can say that. None

 

Or did Shaq have Kobe?

 

Will shaq have the chance to get 6? He already have 4. And he have a pretty decent chance winning a 5th being Lebron's side kick.

His the most of likely to win 6.

Players like Chris Paul ,good players in bad teams, will end up with nothing or maybe just that 1 win ring towards the end of their career ala Gary Payton.

 

Kobe had Shaq....

Shaq consistently drew double teams and was a more than willing and great passer.

If you didnt double him, he was garaunteed to have atleast 30, 12, and 3 on youu...atleast that much.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/gamelog/2000/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/gamelog/2001/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/gamelog/2002/

In the 2000 finals, he had 3 games with 40+ points (lakers won all 3)

Look at the playoffs stats in those links...he was a beast!! He had a game in the finals where he had 39 free throw attempts!!

He had 9 games in the 1st 2 title runs where he had 20+ rebounds and many more with 15+ rebounds in all 3 title runs.

He also had 15 games in all 3 title runs where had 4+ blocks.

He also had 10 games of 40 + points in the 3 title runs. (5 of them occurred in the Finals, and had atleast 1 in each Finals).

Shaq made life very easy for Kobe on the court...how do you ignore a beast like that?

I'm not saying Kobe wasn't good or talented, because he was and they don't win the titles without him or a playmaker like him (all shaq led teams), but Shaq allows his sidekicks to be even more productive and more importantly productive at a very efficient rate.

No matter how good Bryant was, he was NEVER the focus of the defense. You couldn't let Shaq go 1-on-1. The only team that tried was the Spurs, and they actually beat the Lakers twice (99 and 03), because they had 2 great defenders to throw at Shaq in Drob and Duncan.

Every other team had to double/triple team Shaq or foul him all game long.

Because of Shaq, Kobe was allowed to go 1-on-1. He was able to move without the ball and score efficiently. Remember the very next year after Shaq left, Kobe had his worst season of his career as a star player.

Even when he bounced back and averaged 35 ppg, he wasn't getting the layups and dunks he used to get all the time with Shaq. He was relying a lot on jumpers and 3 pointers.

He went from 3 3pt fga's a game with Shaq in 03-04 to 6.5 3pt fga's in 2006 when he averaged 35 ppg. He had a great shooting year though, and he shot 27 fga's a game as well. He had nobody else to help him score.


So in conclusion, Kobe had Shaq to make life easier for him.

 

Got to say...You know your NBA history. You back up your arguments with legit facts. Nice to see that.

 

In addition to the points already made here, I think Jordan's ego wouldn't have allowed anyone else to be the Finals MVP. There was never any doubt in his mind who the Man was. Duncan, IMO, could care less who the Man is on the Spurs, as long as they win it all. Great as Jordan was, he was also the most arrogant player in the league, perhaps with good reason, but still. Witness his HOF speech. Of course, most great players are arrogant, but he was a cut above. I think he HAD to be the Finals MVP each time, in his mind. Probably no one else could've been anyway, but I'd say he really wanted the honor. Bird didn't win in 1981, West didn't win in 1972, Magic didn't win in 1985 or 1988, and they don't seem haunted by that fact. Jordan would've felt slighted, IMO, even if the Bulls had won in the process, and Pippen got an MVP. That said, MJ deserved 6 Finals MVP's. Not arguing that. No one will match that.