There is one way Minnesota could have signed Ricky Rubio this summer. I don't think I've heard anyone mention it yet. From the NBA's CBA: Basically, the Twolves could have renounced his rights and made him a free agent, then signed him to a contract with their MLE so that he would have the security he was looking for. Obviously the contract would have to be agreed to beforehand they had to make sure Rubio didn't jump to another team, but that's what lawyers are for. Here's the math: Rubio was set to earn a guaranteed 6.8 million dollars on his rookie deal, his former club accepted a buyout of 5.3 million from Regal Barcelona. I'm not sure about how the taxes work here but that's not relevant to my point. Lets just say Minnesota offers him a 4 year deal with their MLE, guaranteeing the 1st 2 years. They would have offered him around 12 mil for the first 2 years, which after the buyout amount is what he would have made if he had no buyout at all. Why didn't Minny do this? 1) It sets a precedent and the league will frown upon it, of course that's all that the league can do, there is a loophole in the CBA and the league couldn't punish them for it. 2) They are cheap and didn't want to give Rubio the MLE. They're bleeding money as it is and have a fairly large payroll for next year. I'm pretty sure that if Mark Cuban owned the Timberwolves Rubio would be practicing in Minnesota right now. Cuban is not afraid of Stern and not afraid to spend. I've heard people say in the other thread that it might never make finanacial sense for Rubio to come over here on a rookie deal. Minnesota can use this strategy to sign Rubio to a max deal if they wanted to, as long as they have the cap room, which they will have next year, and the CBA doesn't change.
Rubio didn't want to be in 'sota. If they had taken that approach, Rubio would have signed elsewhere.
That's why I said everything has to be agreed to beforehand. You can put language in that would have prevented Rubio from doing such a thing. I'll give you something I thought up in 2 mins. Rubio's old team reduced his buyout, so something has to be signed there. If Minny, Rubio and his old team agreed beforehand, they can ask Rubio to sign a new agreement: Rubio pays Joventut 5.3 million dollars if the Timberwolves contribute 100k, Rubio pays 53 million dollars if the Timberwolves do not contribute. I'm sure the lawyer can come up with something better than that.
You sure that rule doesn't restrict the player from signing with team that renounced his rights? Once something like that happened every top rookie would be demanding that treatment. Just doesn't seem plausible.
There's no way Minnesota will do this, even if it is within the rules(currently unknown). You think owners are willing to open this can of worms that will only cause salaries to escalate dramatically for rookies? People are forgetting the days when the likes of Glenn Robinson and Joe Smith were getting huge bucks out of college. Or how out of whack top NFL rookie salary scale is.
Agreed beforehand? I don't think you can do this because it violates the whole "fair play" thing the league has going on, if a player is released all other teams should have a fair shot at signing him. Not only that if the league allowed this to happen it would set a precedent of getting out of rookie scale contracts and John Wall would end up demanding that his team release him so he could sign up for the full mid-level with the Lakers. If you remember one of the reason Minny wasted KG's prime was because they had an under the table agreement with Joe Smith, they'd sign him for a low amount to get flexibility, then give him a better contract later on. Minny ended up losing 3 draft picks because of that. I'd find it irony of ironies if Minny did this with Rubio and ended up getting penalized again.
Of course you can't write a contract where you agree that he will stay beforehand. That would mean he's not a free agent. Either Rubio or the league could sue the TWolves in such a case, and it would be a slam dunk win.
I doubt that it is that simple... who was it a couple of years ago that tried something similar to this around the trade deadline? Dallas I think...I think it was Stackhouse involved in the trade and they basically made it public that he was going to be traded, then cut by the new team only to re-sign with Dallas like the next day...pretty sure the league is cracking down on this kind of shady business...
this is all we need now. Rookies that can be signed to massive contracts by renouncing rights. This would go in my **** list like Spurs, Mavs being traded then getting cut then going back to their old teams. I hate that and if a team did this I would hate it too. **** loopholes!
So here's my scenario, Minny, Joventut and Rubio agree beforehand on his release from Joventut. Rubio signs a document that says he'll pay Joventut 5.3 million if Minny contributes 100k, and 53 million if Minny contributes nothing. Is there anything illegal about this signing? I don't see it. Next, Minny releases Rubio and offers him the MLE for 4 years, there is nothing illegal there. Tell me why anyone would be sued here, You'd sue Joventut, Minny and Rubio for negotiating a new buy out, isn't that what thye've been doing?
Not true. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q88 [rquoter]88. Can teams find loopholes in the CBA and make trades that were never intended to be allowed? The CBA has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though that trade is not specifically prohibited by the agreement. [/rquoter] If the league doesn't like the arrangement -- and they wouldn't -- they can disallow it.
Except this isn't a trade, how can you prevent a team from renouncing a player's rights? Teams do renounce the rights of 1st rounders so that they can get rid of the cap hold and sign free agents. Portland would have renounced a 1st rounder this year in order to sign Hedo.
What you are proposing is that Minnesota <i>break</i> the Rookie Salary Scale. 41. First round draft picks operate under a different set of rules? <i> Yes. There's a strict salary scale for first round draft picks and their first contracts. They do this because it was previously common for rookies to hold out, not signing with their team until they got the contract they wanted. There was also backlash from the veteran players who saw rookies with no NBA experience getting more money than they were. The last year without a salary scale was 1994, when it was rumored that first overall pick Glenn Robinson was going to hold out for $100 million, and he eventually signed a 10-year, $68.15 million contract.* Beginning in 1995, salaries for first round picks were set according to a strict scale, determined by their exact draft position. The salary scale is determined for all picks in all seasons when the CBA is written. Rookie scale contracts are always for two seasons, with team options for the third and fourth seasons. Here is an example showing the scale salary figures for the #1 overall draft pick in each season from 2005-06 through 2011-12 </i> 45. If a first round draft pick is renounced, is he still bound to the salary scale for a first round pick? <i> No. The salary scale only applies to the team that drafts the player or the team to which the player's draft rights are traded. When Chicago renounced first round pick Travis Knight in 1996, he then signed with the Lakers for one year at the league minimum salary. Note that this might actually work to the player's advantage. If he becomes an outstanding NBA player, then he would be eligible for a non-scale contract (and potentially a big payday), much sooner than if he had played under a scale contract. The same is true for second round draft picks, whose first contracts are usually for two seasons (with the second season at the team's option). </i>
I'm not saying they SHOULD do it. I'm just saying that if they really wanted to sign him, they could have. And the salary scale I'm proposing is not really breaking the rookie scale, Rubio would end up earning as much as he would have earned had he signed a 1st round deal with no buyout, you can make the math work so that it doesn't look like Rubio gained anything over the 5th pick of last year's draft. I realize that Glen Taylor and David Kahn would never do what I propose, they are not strong enough as owner and GM, plus they are cheap. I'll bet that Rubio's agent did propose this to them and they shot it down. There are few owners in the league with big enough balls to pull this off, Cuban is surely one of them. As far as loopholes, they are there to be taken advantage of, remember when Red Auerbach drafted Larry Bird a year before he came out? That's taking advantage of a loophole, the league let Bird goto Boston because there was nothing they could do, they did subsequently closed the loophole, but only after Boston got their man.
23. Do players and teams ever have under-the-table agreements? What happens when the league finds out about them? Is this what happened with the Timberwolves and Joe Smith? <i> If a team makes a direct agreement with a player that is not reported to the league, the penalties can be even harsher than those described in question number 22. Such a violation is considered by the league to be among the most serious a team can commit. Again, the league will investigate any allegations of wrongdoing. A violation can result in a fine up to $5,000,000, forfeiture of draft picks, voiding the player's contract(s), and/or the suspension for up to one year of any team personnel who were involved. In addition, the player himself can be fined up to $100,000, and prohibited from ever signing with that team. This is what happened in 2000 with Joe Smith and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Smith left the Philadelphia 76ers in 1999 (following the lockout) to sign with the Minnesota Timberwolves for their $1.75 million Mid-Level exception. They made an under-the-table agreement that Smith would play under three consecutive one-year contracts at below market value, and the Timberwolves would reward him by using their Bird rights to sign him to a huge contract beginning with the 2001-02 season. Unfortunately, they reduced this agreement to writing, and the written agreement eventually found its way into the league's hands. It had long been rumored that such under-the-table agreements existed, but this was the first time the league had hard evidence in the form of a signed contract. The league responded by fining the team the maximum (at the time) $3.5 million, taking away their next five draft picks (two were later returned), and voiding Smith's then-current contract. Owner Glen Taylor and GM Kevin McHale also agreed to leaves of absence (in lieu of suspensions, at which time the fifth draft pick was returned). Most interestingly, the league also voided Smith's two previous, already-completed contracts. This essentially stripped the Timberwolves of any Bird rights to Smith, preventing them from re-signing Smith for any salary above the minimum (they had already used their other exceptions). Smith left Minnesota and signed with the Detroit Pistons, but returned to Minnesota in 2001. </i>
It wouldn't be under the table, and the agreement would be between Joventut and Ricky Rubio. Minnesota's signature does not need to appear on the document that Rubio signs with Joventut, can the league punish them for that? I think we'd be in a grey area.
Ok 1. Minnesota has a lawyer draw up paperwork with Rubio and his agent. 2. They can't file it with the NBA office, so they hold it until later. 3. Rubio settles up on his overseas contract. 4. Minnesota renounces their Rights to Rubio. 5. Rubio wants to break his <i>hidden</i> contract and sign with the Knicks. 6. Minnesota cries foul and produces the <i>hidden</i> contract. 7. The NBA says they don't know about this <i>hidden</i> contract that Minnesota should have already presented to the league office before the Rights to Rubio were renounced. Do you think that the NBA will have <i>sympathy</i> for Minnesota and enforce the <i>hidden</i> contract? Do you think that Minnesota will be able to go to an outside venue (Non NBA) to get the <i>hidden</i> contract enforced and be able to laugh at the NBA office and say <i>You Can't Touch This</i>?
