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Save our Foreskins

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    it's too late for me, but with a state-run, single payer system, if the CDC decides circumcision's benefits outweigh the risks, could we see Penis Panels?

    ...government is full of dicks...

    [rquoter]Officials Weigh Circumcision to Fight H.I.V. Risk

    By RONI CARYN RABIN
    Public health officials are considering promoting routine circumcision for all baby boys born in the United States to reduce the spread of H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS.

    The topic is a delicate one that has already generated controversy, even though a formal draft of the proposed recommendations, due out from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention by the end of the year, has yet to be released.

    Experts are also considering whether the surgery should be offered to adult heterosexual men whose sexual practices put them at high risk of infection. But they acknowledge that a circumcision drive in the United States would be unlikely to have a drastic impact: the procedure does not seem to protect those at greatest risk here, men who have sex with men.

    Recently, studies showed that in African countries hit hard by AIDS, men who were circumcised reduced their infection risk by half. But the clinical trials in Africa focused on heterosexual men who are at risk of getting H.I.V. from infected female partners.

    For now, the focus of public health officials in this country appears to be on making recommendations for newborns, a prevention strategy that would only pay off many years from now. Critics say it subjects baby boys to medically unnecessary surgery without their consent.

    But Dr. Peter Kilmarx, chief of epidemiology for the division of H.I.V./AIDS prevention at the C.D.C., said that any step that could thwart the spread of H.I.V. must be given serious consideration.

    “We have a significant H.I.V. epidemic in this country, and we really need to look carefully at any potential intervention that could be another tool in the toolbox we use to address the epidemic,” Dr. Kilmarx said. “What we’ve heard from our consultants is that there would be a benefit for infants from infant circumcision, and that the benefits outweigh the risks.”

    He and other experts acknowledged that although the clinical trials of circumcision in Africa had dramatic results, the effects of circumcision in the United States were likely to be more muted because the disease is less prevalent here, because it spreads through different routes and because the health systems are so disparate as to be incomparable.

    Clinical trials in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda found that heterosexual men who were circumcised were up to 60 percent less likely to become infected with H.I.V. over the course of the trials than those who were not circumcised.

    There is little to no evidence that circumcision protects men who have sex with men from infection.

    Another reason circumcision would have less of an impact in the United States is that some 79 percent of adult American men are already circumcised, public health officials say.

    But newborn circumcision rates have dropped in recent decades, to about 65 percent of newborns in 1999 from a high of about 80 percent after World War II, according to C.D.C. figures. And blacks and Hispanics, who have been affected disproportionately by AIDS, are less likely than whites to circumcise their baby boys, according to the agency.

    Circumcision rates have fallen in part because the American Academy of Pediatrics, which sets the guidelines for infant care, does not endorse routine circumcision. Its policy says that circumcision is “not essential to the child’s current well-being,” and as a result, many state Medicaid programs do not cover the operation.

    The academy is revising its guidelines, however, and is likely to do away with the neutral tone in favor of a more encouraging policy stating that circumcision has health benefits even beyond H.I.V. prevention, like reducing urinary tract infections for baby boys, said Dr. Michael Brady, a consultant to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

    He said the academy would probably stop short of recommending routine surgery, however. “We do have evidence to suggest there are health benefits, and families should be given an opportunity to know what they are,” he said. But, he said, the value of circumcision for H.I.V. protection in the United States is difficult to assess, adding, “Our biggest struggle is trying to figure out how to understand the true value for Americans.”

    Circumcision will be discussed this week at the C.D.C.’s National H.I.V. Prevention Conference in Atlanta, which will be attended by thousands of health professionals and H.I.V. service providers.

    Among the speakers is a physician from Operation Abraham, an organization based in Israel and named after the biblical figure who was circumcised at an advanced age, according to the book of Genesis. The group trains doctors in Africa to perform circumcisions on adult men to reduce the spread of H.I.V.

    Members of Intact America, a group that opposes newborn circumcision, have rented mobile billboards that will drive around Atlanta carrying their message that “circumcising babies doesn’t prevent H.I.V.,” said Georganne Chapin, who leads the organization.

    Although the group’s members oppose circumcision on broad philosophical and medical grounds, Ms. Chapin argued that the studies in Africa found only that circumcision reduces H.I.V. infection risk, not that it prevents infection. “Men still need to use condoms,” Ms. Chapin said.

    In fact, while the clinical trials in Africa found that circumcision reduced the risk of a man’s acquiring H.I.V., it was not clear whether it would reduce the risk to women from an infected man, several experts said.

    “There’s mixed data on that,” Dr. Kilmarx said. But, he said, “If we have a partially successful intervention for men, it will ultimately lower the prevalence of H.I.V. in the population, and ultimately lower the risk to women.”

    Circumcision is believed to protect men from infection with H.I.V. because the mucosal tissue of the foreskin is more susceptible to H.I.V. and can be an entry portal for the virus. Observational studies have found that uncircumcised men have higher rates of other sexually transmitted diseases like herpes and syphilis, and a recent study in Baltimore found that heterosexual men were less likely to have become infected with H.I.V. from infected partners if they were circumcised.[/rquoter]
     
  2. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    wait, i thought the birthers thought all american boys were circumcised. :confused:
     
  3. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    I think whoever is pushing for this should get the chop.
     
  4. cson

    cson Member

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    No we couldn't.
    Fearmongering on the other hand , has no limits.
     
  5. Franchise2001

    Franchise2001 Contributing Member

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    See... now they're just making doctors work for tips! ;)
     
    2 people like this.
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Basso is of interest sometimes to show us the tactics of the paranoid right.

    There is definitely a manhood issue with many of the rank and file often undereducated GOP voters in Appalachia and the deep south who have found their standard of living slipping under conservative economics.

    Does this fear tactic remind anyone else of the mad general in Dr. Strangelove who was worried that the Russkies were going to dilute his precious bodily fluids?
     
    #6 glynch, Aug 28, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    one of the greatest Seinfeld episodes

    Elaine

    Have you ever seen one?

    Jerry

    You mean that wasn't -

    Elaine

    Yeah.

    Jerry

    No.. you?

    Elaine

    Ya.

    Jerry

    What'd you think?

    Elaine

    (SHAKES HER HEAD) No...

    Jerry

    Not good?

    Elaine

    No, had no face, no personality, very dull. It was like a

    martian. But hey, that's me.
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I give up. Someone recently asked me (may have been mc mark) for a link when I said you weren't always this sad and pathetic (or something like that). Search would only take me back to 2007 in D&D for your posts, but I looked and couldn't find a "good" post I could point to that would support my obviously faulty memory. I read what you quoted here, basso, and your implication is pure and simple bull****. So I give up. Clearly, the basso I thought once existed never did, or is in an alternate universe. I'm leaning towards the former.

    And for the record, I think this is a needless operation.
     
  9. glynch

    glynch Member

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    It is bizarre, but I have seen it happen before. A younger guy goes through a somewhat liberal phase around college and a few years after, than goes back to the right wing ideology of his upbringing. It often has to do with a personal or professional set back.

    As I commented on a few months ago. Basso seemed like a basically moderate guy who was sort of extreme on defense issues, possibly due to his shock at 9/11, which of course Bush-Cheney fanned. Now he has morphed into a nutty dittohead.
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    It's weird. Were he interesting enough, someone could write a thesis about the metamorphosis. I was beginning to wonder where I got the idea. At least you perhaps remember something of that guy.
     
  11. LANIMIRC

    LANIMIRC Member

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    Meh. Studies show that women prefer circumcised penises.
     
  12. Mr. Brightside

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    Meh. Studies show that your wife prefers uncircumsised penises.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Is that right? Funny then that European men overwhelmingly have what nature gave them. Here's a blurb from Wikipedia:


    The following countries have a circumcision rate of less than 20%: Iceland, United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Portugal, Spain, France, Switzerland, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Slovakia, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Austria, Belarus, Russia, Cyprus, Georgia.


    Trippy how all those European babes (and lord, there are a LOT of European babes... I've been there many times) seem to find the uncircumcised penises of their men to be just groovy.
     
  14. basso

    basso Member
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    i'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's possible you just don't appreciate my sense of humor, which is perhaps drier than you're used to.
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I knew you were joking, but honestly no one can tell anymore because of other "issues" you've chosen to chosen to champion
     
  16. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Considering its foreskin humor, I'm glad its dry. :D
     
  17. Refman

    Refman Member

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    So because somebody disagrees with your political ideology, there has to be some traumatic and/or tragic reason?

    When you believe things like that, then you stop bringing anything to the debate. Bugger off.
     
  18. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    Well my first memories of basso on here were always of him mentioning 9/11.
     
  19. Refman

    Refman Member

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    basso needs to bugger off as well. He brings nothing to the debate. He is as partisan and belittling of others as anybody here.

    My original point still stands. If you have the belief that anybody that disagrees with you politically does so because of some traumatic event that causes such a defect, then you are not helpful to the debate.
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I certainly do remember. He was more like Hayes, who aside from his neo-con view point is a fairly reasonable moderate guy. --or Did we just fall for a couple of assertions by Basso about how he used to be a moderte with a liberal view or two and possibly a Democratic vote or two.

    I hope I'm not in for a 30 paragraph definitional dissertation on why Hayes's views on the role of the miitary in foreign policy are 99.99% identical to those of the neo-cons, but, no sir, he is not a neo-con.
     
    #20 glynch, Aug 29, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009

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