Top 5 players in the league entering the 2009/2010 season

The fascination with guards never cease to amaze me. Where's KG and Gasol in your top 5? Weren't these guys the difference between a championship and a 1st round exit (Celtics, and Lakers were actually a lottery team before he came to town).


1. LBJ- Those guys who are saying he won't be as good as Jordan are kidding themselves. Jordon was definitely great, but he also had one of the best teams at the time, along with the best coach in the league, so act like he won 6 titles just because he was "Jordan" is ridiculous. Stop immortalizing old people lol, Jordan playing on a crappy Bulls team could only take his team to the finals, the same way that LBJ did.

2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Gasol-Best big man in the league now IMHO
5. KG

 

Dwight Howard is better.

 

No, he wouldn't. Kobe's best year tops out at 28 PER (when he "had to do by himself") while Wade's best two seasons were 30.4 and 28.9. I know PER isn't the end all be all but as it is now, I can't statistically find a way to put Kobe above Wade right now. He shoots worse, passes less, and plays worse defense. The whole "Kobe's numbers are down because he has better teammates" is overblown because it's not like he's shooting better or passing more. In fact, his shooting has gotten slightly worse while and he's been getting less assists as his team improved (post Pau Gasol).

 

Kobe's FG% was the highest it has been since he played with Shaq. Kobe is a better 3pt & ft shooter than DWade(true shooting percentage over the last 3 years is virtually a wash between the two). Kobe also gets more rebounds, and commits fewer turnovers.

I'm not arguing who is the best between LeBron/Wade/Kobe, but I don't see how you can't put them in the same tier.

EDIT: I forgot to laugh about Wade being the better defender. Even stat junkie Hollinger rate Kobe as the 3rd best SG defender(and that was with Battier being considered for 1st all though he is a SF that defends SG). Wade didn't even make honorable mention.

 

Very rarely do players all of a sudden develop a post game. It is actually hard to teach a player shooting/touch, because I bet you Howard has been practicing those things for over 10 years and still doesn't have that.

 

Did you also consider in the minutes? Kobe Bryant isn't on any decline yet.... Kobe is still the second best player in the league today and his position there is rock solid... I think most NBA fans and analysts would agree to that.

 

Very good piece on Wade's defense here:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-127/Is-Dwyane-Wade-an-Elite-Defender-.html

Snippet:

[rquoter]
Measuring individual defense continues to be one of the basketball world's most difficult tasks. Will we ever be able to determine how much better or worse a defender Dwyane Wade would be if he stopped trying to pick Marquis Daniels' pocket? If Wade concerned himself a little less with the passing lanes and stayed closer to home? Do the volume of steals Wade racks up compensate for the easy baskets generated by his opponents when he gambled and lost?

Advanced stats for defense are very much a work in progress, but those that are available demonstrate Wade to be a solid defender. His defensive rating of 103.7 at Basketball Prospectus. The only wing player with a better defensive rating? James, LeBron. Both 82games.com and Basketball Value show Miami's on court/off court defense to be about 2 3/4 points better per 100 possessions with Wade on the court, also quite good.

The eye test seems to support this. Dwyane Wade might be an unabashed gambler, but over time he's beating the house. It's difficult to watch a series of ten clips of Wade on defense without seeing at least one easy breakaway bucket off a Wade-generated turnover. Whether that makes him the third-best defender in the league is an entirely different conversation, but as guards go, Wade is a defensive asset, one whose presence disrupts offenses, even from the weak side of the floor.
[/rquoter]

 

I've already addressed head to head comparisons. They are silly when you have 80 other games to play. Teams/players matchup poorly against each other, but dominate the rest of the league. Its like saying the Bobcats are better than the Lakers because they have a winning record against the Lakers. Its laughable.

 

The Bobcats have beaten the Lakers in 5 of their last 6 meetings over the last 3 seasons. Clearly, they are the better team.

 

Rank these 3 players for me....when healthy.

Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwight Howard.

 

I was looking at TS%. I wasn't comparing TS% between Wade and Kobe either. The point I was trying to get across was how people are all of a sudden lauding and considering Kobe to be the best he's evern been while he's been shooting worse and less since playing with Gasol (you can imagine my disgust at his MVP last year when it was probably only his fourth or fifth best season). Yes, less is not necessarily a bad thing but it's not like getting more assists (his assist rate has dropped too). So Kobe has simply shot less and made less shots since his epic 06 season. Just because his team is better he gets all the credit and it's a shame.

I don't really trust Hollinger with any defensive things. Yes, he's done some great work like developing PER, which is a weighted box score summary stat, but I never really like his defensive analysis. He seems to put in way too many subjective factors in there. He's a journalist that embraced statistics but there are so many more statisticians that embraced sports (APBR Metrics). From most defensive metrics that I like to look at, Wade rates out better.

I just simply can't put someone with a 24.6 PER in the same tier as three players with PERs of over 30. I just can't. PER has its many drawbacks but when the difference is that big, it's indicative of real difference in talent. It would be one thing if Kobe had repeatedly posted his career-high PER of 28 over and over again, but just to claim Kobe with his inferior numbers is on the same level as those three guys because his team is good is not right.

 

I'll pass.

 

Why?? I want to know your opinion and only yours.

 

I can't really compare Dirk and Dwight, since they're so different. I can see the argument either way, and it probably depends on the team which one I'd rather have. If I could add either to the Rockets this season, I'd take Dirk. A more potent offensive team that's looking for more defensive presence (e.g. Suns) might prefer Howard.

When/if Yao ever comes back "healthy", I expect him to be a lesser player than he was. More in the prime Smits/Ilgauskus class than Dwight Howard's.

 

Your wrong, Yao will be better than ever.

 

Let your Yao love come true. I don't know why he wouldn't come back to his old form when he gets back though.

 

I don't see what the Chris Paul love is all about.

As a Franchise PG, I'd rather have Deron Williams than Cp3.

I know a lot of people hate the Jazz around here, but c'mon. Give D-Will his due.

 

Its because he plays for the J@$$. If it wasnt for that he get more love here. Those two is a toss up. If Deron didnt play for the j@$$ ill pick him over CP3.