http://sports.sohu.com/91/74/sports_news164527491.shtml CBA Director was interviewed via telephone. He said CBA supports Yao Ming to play in NBA as long as his NBA activities do not have conflicts with those of Chinese NT . The team that selects Yao must sign a written pledge that Yao will be allowed to recall when the Chinese NT has important games. Dallas signed the letter when it selected Wang ZhiZhi. So did Denver when Menke Bateer was selected. Yao Ming will be no exception. An AP report inidcated that according to FIBA rules, CBA has until Friday to respond to NBA's request as to Yao Ming's status.
thx fwang. Yao Ming is an exception if David Sterns says he will be....Yao is a #1 Pick. He is not the same as those 2nd rounders. Considering Stern keeps calling their bluff by saying "Do you want him to be Sabonis" and considering your article says we sent them a demand...it is beginning to sound like to me that the NBA is making demands beyond the FIBA rules, not the other way around. Sounds like Stern is insisting that Ming not play in the Asian Games, which would be counter to the std FIBA Letter of Clearance. GO GO GO STERN!!! btw: I don't understand how we could make a request according to FIBA rules....but, who knows. Maybe it is a request for a bilateral agreement amendment between countries that the Asian Games are no longer part of the deal.
Did Stern say that? More specifically, did he say that the written pledge would be OK for second rounds but not for the No. 1 pick??? Show us the link. Did he say Asian Games are not sanctioned by FIBA or you are dreaming? I think if Stern did say so (highly doubtful) and if he is aware that China got letters from Dallas and Denver before, he is basically saying to the the CBA director that my dick is bigger than yours and you have to change your rules to accomerdate mine. What will make a difference if Rockets send the same pledge as did Dallas and Denver? What could hurt Houston? They have verbally said OK with that, right? If it is Houston which makes a decision not to put anything in writing, that is something fishy going on.
Stern called their bluff a couple of times on ESPN and somewhere else. He said that Yao will be no exception, that he must sign a standard #1 contract. He reminded them of what happened to Sabonis...."If you want him to be another Sabonis, there is nothing we can do." or something like that. but, I've been thinking about what you said, that there must be a hold up, and I still can see the hold up being from China. It is no beginning to be coming from the NBA, especially considering your article says we sent the request with the deadline. The FIBA rules are generally the previous federation sends clearance and the NBA has a week to accept it. So, it seems odd that it is the other way around. I don't know.
fwang, you keep making a big deal about what Dallas and Denver wrote. It is likely just nothing, but FIBA statements in Chinese words. And for you to say it is "highly unlikely" that Stern said what he did...first off, he did tell them that it is up to them whether Yao plays or becomes another Sabonis, and that he has to follows our NBA rules. That was said. You are underestimating how important a #1 pick is versus 2nd Rounders. Stern does have the bigger dick, because all the revenue generation for China goes through trademarks owned by Stern and co. And China will cave if what is happening is that the NBA and the Rockets are trying to get assurances that Ming not play in the Asian Games. Basically, if Ming can't play a whole season, Ming doesn't play and you get no TV deals. That's the bluff game that I believe Stern has been playing for awhile. You are stuck on this "written agreement" deal and Wang's news, and not looking at the big picture. Check out the Dennis Lindsey radio segment that Duece posted. He is our Personal Director and scout. He said we are after assurances, and things are out of our hands. The assurances are beginning to sound like No Asian Games. This is a #1. This is an Exception. We will not except a std Letter of Clearance that allows them to call him back in the Asian Games. That's what it sounds like to me.
I think you are way imagining too much. 1. Standard 1 contract. Yao will sign a standard #1 contract. no question about that. Houston, Yao and CBA can also sign a contract regarding Yao's Chinese NT duties. These two are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, right? Stern did not say that Houston can't sign another pledge with CBA, did he??? 2. Sabonis question. I think he was referring to the fact that Yao can be drafted and he will eventually come to the States. It will be up to everyone's benefits to see him to come here sooner rather than later. I do not think this is bluff as you might imagine. It is known that CBA is supportive for Yao coming over here otherwise they would not have let Wang and Bateer coming over. However, CBA's job is to make sure that Chinese NT competes well in international games. Without Yao, Wang and Bateer in those games if they stay in the US for NBA-related events, how can the Chinese NT team make addtional scores? The Director of the CBA will lose his job then. 3. Why did Rockets not sign a written pledge? Did someone tell them not to or Rockets did not do homework? Assuming that Rockets have done the home work and no one is on the way for them not to sign anything, I would think something fishy is going on and the CBA is probably guessing that as well.
Negotiation is about compremise. If ChBA thinks there is a need for an official statement to ensure Yao to be available to NT, including Asian games, it is Houston's term to respond. This is a legitimate request. ChBA wants to ensure control. They may not need to call Yao every time for teh Asian games (in fact, they may indeed will not, China team wins Asia easily without Yao), but they want the choice in their deposition. ChBA does not care ENOUGH Yao goes #1 or #7, they have their own concerns. ChBA also said "Wednesday is Rockets' deadline, not our deadline. We have until Friday to respond." The westling may well be into after the draft. I am wondering what CD and co. are doing/thinking now? michecon
michecon....shake your head for a second and spin around in the room, and now consider that we are making the demands. fwang gives us new info that says the NBA sent them a request. That could be a bilateral agreement. Look and see if there is another reason why the NBA would send *them* an official FIBA request. imo, this has changed from earlier conversations we had. fwang's article says we (The NBA) sent them a request with a deadline. In earlier reports they are asking for the Asian Games, right? But it is supported already by FIBA, right?...so what more are they asking. You earlier suspected they wanted extra practice time, even though 14 days preparation is allowed for tournaments, right? You seem flabbergasted that we wouldn't accept that, right? Think about it....it is the other way around. We have new information in this thread from fwang. The NBA gave them their silly "written demands" that were std FIBA for the 2nd rounders, but not this time. Now we want the Asian Games striken from the Letter of Clearance. The Asian Games cut into training camp. That might work for a 2nd rounder, but not a #1. Sounds like Stern is making the demand on behalf of the Rockets. btw: I'm pretty positive that we can't sign anything outside of std Player Contracts without league approval. Dallas had to get league approval. That was noted in an article last year.
I'm guessing whichever letter Dallas signed was responsible for Wang being called back to China and missing games. The Rockets delegation to China was assured Yao would not miss regular season or playoff games, or at least they believed they were. What happened? Has the CBA changed its terms to include callbacks during the season (is that when the Asian Games are?)? That would be shady at this late date. Did our delegation somehow misunderstand the CBA? Not likely. Or is China really afraid Yao will defect as reported on Fox tonight? We've heard repeatedly in recent days that the Wang situation was a red herring. Fox says it isn't. And Mark Berman's as reliable as they come. Doc? Clutch? Popeye? Can anyone help this diehard pro-Minger find his sunshine ass? Heypartner? Anyone?
BMJ, We are taking Ming tomorrow no matter what. So, we are really back to 2 weeks ago on cc.net when some of were saying, taking him, hold him hostage, and demand he appear in training camp. Take him, and get them to assure us they will only request him for the Olympics and World Championships. What we found since is that the Asian Games are during training camp. What we found out more waa that the Asian Games are a FIBA sanctioned event, and we have to let him play by FIBA rules that the NBA follows. What we heard for sure was that Goldberg and CD got some "assurances" that he could play an entire season. What are those assurances? You said it best. Put it all together, and we are not getting the assurances and the NBA is fighting on our behalf. This is a #1 pick, and they will let him play an entire season...that's what we all demanded 2-3 weeks ago, and it looks like we are staring them down now. I'm believing this new info is the NBA requesting the Asian Games be dropped from the FIBA commitment we have with China....a "bilateral agreement" as FIBA calls it and michecon found.
I am pretty sure the Asian Games are held off-season, in October, and only once every 4 years much like the Olympics. It will not affect Yao's NBA season or play-off. -G'day-
Upon the realization that the CBA commish is really worried about defecting, I think that the FIBA contract means diddly to them. They don't really care that much about releases and contracts. This is about the legitimate reality that one of their most marketable exports could bail on them and never come back. Once Yao is here, it would be virtually impossible for them to forcibly extract him if he wanted to remain. Their concern seems to be less based on protocol and the legal definitions of what a release means and more on the actual realities of Yao playing and staying in the US. I think this is fairly clear and makes a helluva lot of sense. I agree that FIBA releases set up boundries and Stern can make requests but this is more about government control over what they feel is a commodity in Yao. They are right to worry. Seems to me that these aren't the types of people comfortable taking a chance. They want every possible guarantee they can get - legal, blood, next of kin, you name it. Man, to be a fly on the wall when Yao and the commish sat down for their talk yesterday. Well, a fly with another fly to interpret.
HP: I could not find where it's reported NBA asked for dropping the Asia games or gave CBA a deadline. (I read fwang's post again, no there). In that same report, it says, Yao's agent has not contacted CBA in the recent hours, and CBA has not talked to Rockets since they are too busy with the draft. Gerrrr? What????
Heypartner: You are mis-reading my quote. NBA did not make a demand. CBA did ( READ MY ORIGINAL POST. ) CBA wanted a written pledge from the NBA team which drafts any Chinese player. They did it when Dallas drafted Wang and again when Denver drafted Menke Bateer. They got both although Dallas is probably not happy based on Cuban's reation. CBA said Yao Ming will be no exception. I have asked you agian and again to show us the link that some one in NBA or Rockets have said something like "The 1 pick is diffferent from the second rounds. We will not give our written pledge". You failed to do so. That only tells me that your imagination is not based on fact and therefore not worth arguing about. My hunch is that CBA will wait until tomorrow. If Rockets are to pick Yao Ming, they will then decide the next step. I still do not understand why Rockets would not sign a written pledge. Are they planning a 11th hour trade and thus decide not to sign anything as I expect that CBA will incorporate the written pledge in a third-party transferrable agreement? So, if Rockets do intend to trade the pick, and they sign a written pledge which is transferrable, the third party may bulge and the trade may not go through - this is my speculation.
Damn these posts are flying fast. Have to edit just so it still makes sense... Thanks for clarifying about the Asian Games, guys. I don't think heypartner's saying that the things you're questioning were reported, but I don't think he needs official ink to prove that a number one overall is different than a 2nd rounder. By the way, that's the MAIN THING we went to China to find out and we thought we'd gotten the assurances we needed. Back to my unedited post: We might be back to where we were two weeks ago as HP just said. The difference though is it isn't two weeks ago. Two weeks ago we still had two weeks to work on a contingency plan and weigh offers. I still want Ming badly and I still believe he is far and away the most value for the pick, but for really the first time I'm both anxious and angry. I agree with Jeff. The Rockets should issue an ultimatum. Or rather, they should stick to the one they already issued. Or rather rather, they should give them a few more hours. But this is crap about the CBA refusing to release him until two days after the draft. I don't care what their official deadline is and I don't care what their deal with the NBA is: I am angry and irrational right now. And as a Rocket fan all I see is that the Rockets have done everything in their power to respect the desires of the CBA and the CBA is now willfully disrespecting the Rockets, putting us and Yao in a terrible situation. True or not, the Rockets should tell China to fax the papers by mid afternoon or watch Yao start falling. Then they should probably pick him anyway, papers or not.
I hope all of this wrangling isn't a preview of what life with Ming will be like for us. I'm gonna get murdered (figuratively) and called names I'm sure, but is ao worth it? Nice guy, obvious skills (but not without flaws), but is he really a slam dunk for us? I'm gonna root for Yao no matter what uniform he puts on (I'm Chinese-American), but I'm beginning to think we should trade the pick. I am very nervous about this.
You are speaking for their concerns. <b>Is everyone forgetting OUR concerns, our assurances.</b> Less that 10 days ago the big argument was whether Ming would be available in camp and all season. Then CD and Goldberg say they got "assurances." Uh...did we? Not according to Dennis Lindsey (Rockets Personal Director) on Monday in a radio interview at ESPN. The Asian Games cut into training camp. That doesn't fly. Before the "defection" exclusive you posted Jeff, today they were saying they needed a "written agreement " about the Asian Games. This is just as much about the Asian Games. We don't want it; they do. Simple stuff, really. This is about our oft-stated "assurances" versus their "worries of defection." Jeff, you are saying it is all about defection. That is not what CD and Goldberg and Dennis Lindsey (check the Duece radio interview thread) are saying. They are cooly and consistently saying we "need assurances." How can we forget this so soon? What are those "assurances" given what we know about FIBA rules? Do you think we got the assurances? To get them, we have to change FIBA-based standard agreements with transfer of Chinese players.
michecon and fwang, good grief I can't read chinese. but fwang did right this, "An AP report inidcated that according to FIBA rules, <b>CBA has until Friday to respond to NBA's request as to Yao Ming's status</b>." Can you provide the AP report, or are you keeping it a secret? If that is not the translation, then sorry, but that is a clear "NBA request" fwang reported...Secondly michecon, ALL OUR BRASS went to China to get assurances, and surely part of that was asking about traning camp and pre-season, which is part of a full season. Hell, I have to buy 3 extra games each year on my season tickets at full price for preseason...I damn sure want Ming there, and I'm sure Rudy does, too. I can't find any FIBA rule that concerns the receiving league requesting something, so I am assuming it the NBA asking about our "assurances" that he play a whole season, which likely mean training camp....thus, no Asian Games. connect the dots. They Asian Games and our assurances (if that means camp) cannot coexist!! Why are you allowed to assume, and I'm not. michecon and fwang, you both are making assumptions that a 3rd-party transferable agreement is being requested, for what? added practice time...what??? You have no proof of that more than my assumptions. Tell me again what they are requesting, and why we won't sign it? Can't you see that it is "highly likely" (as fwang likes to write) that we aren't getting our assurances in writing.
I think the Rockets should just sign the written assurance... The Asian game only occur once every 4 years thus it shouldn't be too much of a big deal. The Rockets won't get Ming before the World Championship Tournament finishes anyway... a few more weeks is all they need to give (I know they've given enough already) but they'll get to keep the him on-and-off season for the next 4 years basically uninterrupted. btw, China has won the Asian basketball Championships 13 out of the last 14 years, and I think they can do without him, especially for the qualifying games as they have been so dominating over there lately. -G'day-
Agreed. BTW, they also asked him to play during the Asian BasketBall Championship and possibly other regional/international games.
