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Death Panels! Socialized Medical Hell

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I am certain that it couldn't be as bad as the spanking that the anti-healthcare woman took in the video on the last page.
     
  2. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    I believe we shouldn't. Let insurance companies make their own ruinous policies. However, we should regulate the monopolization of the industry which leads to these crappy policies. Go go invisible hand.

    Same as above.

    Agree on this one. I'm a free market guy, but it isn't a cure-all. Especially for certain industries. Namely education, healthcare, criminal justice, etc. Some things shouldn't be for sale in this country. People's health being one of them.

    Agree here. More choices = better for everyone.

    We've got a bunch of silly doomsday theorists running around screaming about socialism because our government has done a pretty crappy job of running enterprises lately. So yeah, as Bill Maher would say "Republicans hate government run programs because they suck at running them." Which is essentially true. You can't half-ass this kind of stuff or you're doomed to failure. If the USPS and UPS/FedEx/DHL can coexist and serve the public happily, I think we're a smart and wealthy enough nation to apply a government option to healthcare.
     
  3. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    This seems contradictory to your quote below:

    Can you explain?

    Also - andy: I disagree on the idea of not capping health care benefits. That's fiscal suicide, IMO. Rationing is always going to be necessary to reign in costs, especially as life expectancy keeps inching upwards and corresponding treatments are ever more-expensive.
     
  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    I believe that the majority of the time the free market will do just fine. Exceptions being certain industries and certain times when power becomes too centralized. Those being the exception, rather than the rule. It is possible to like the free market, but be realistic about the weaknesses of capitalism at the same time.
     
  5. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    No issues - I'm just curious how you would envision leaving health care to the free market while simultaneously providing health care for all.

    I mean, strictly speaking, we have the unregulated version of that now via our shoddy private cartels and the emergency room. Assuming you meant something more palatable than that, I'm confused as to how it would work.
     
  6. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    I'm still trying to wrap my head around how people can support public education and at the same time oppose public healthcare.

    I'm paying thousands of dollars in taxes every year so that other people's kids can go to school for free. That's not socialism, but this is?
     
  7. Southern Select

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    Yeah, nothing beats the American public school system.
     
  8. Southern Select

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    It wont be an option for long, and you know it.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Actually, I've got this crazy ass socialist thing called blue cross blue shield. I directly or indirectly pay thousands and thousands of dollars per year and never get sick and rarely go to the doctor. Then all these sicky-ass freeloaders get sicky sick and have these expensive-ass babies and bratty sicky kids. And who pays for it? ME that's who. I'm paying for your kids heath care. WTF. I don't like your kids.

    Marx himself is cheering as I pay for all these little brats and these lazy pregnant women.

    This private health insurance system is for losers. Can I get in on an insurance plan for healthy people without dependents only? Then I can pocket the cash and purchase luxury goods? Please?
     
  10. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    Wow. I finally understand what Madison was referring to in Federalist 10.
     
  11. uolj

    uolj Member

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    If it works well and the other options work poorly, then I imagine our elected leaders might at some point in the future agree to remove the option.

    Are you afraid it's going to work too well and cause this country to move further from your preferred political philosophy?
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    I love it when Sam plays dumb
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    If the private health insurance industry can provide coverage that people like and can afford, then they should have nothing to fear from a public option.
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    What is your opinion on the chances of such a scenario unfolding under the leadership of people like Sheila Jackson Lee and others who care more about getting re-elected than coming up with responsible long term solutions to things such as healthcare?
     
  15. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    To give bigtexxx some credit, that's one of my biggest issues with a public option. It turns into a political football that anyone in power (Dems or Republicans) can abuse for political gain. A clear example being the Bush administration's prescription drug bill that was a nice convenient political ploy before the start of the 2004 election. Sadly, that bill was also a piece of garbage.

    That being said, nothing is worse than the way it is right now. I was against a public option for a long time but the rapid rise in costs/worsening of coverage along with my own personal experience with the insurance system have convinced me that a public option is the only way to go at this point. We're wasting massive amounts of our GDP on health care spending and it has no where to go but upwards.
     
  16. Southern Select

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    At least you will admit it. Thank you.

    Universal coverage will be inescapable. That is of course the road we are on.

    Yes, I'm afraid of an eventual government takeover, with health decisions will be completely taken out of the hands of doctors and patients and placed in the hands of a Washington bureaucracy. Call me crazy, but I'm also afraid of my lifestyle be "managed" by this nationalized monopoly.
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I trust them far more than the GOP, who did nothing to rein in the costs of healthcare while costs doubled over the last decade. Again, if the private insurance industry provides coverages that make sense for people to buy, there is plenty of room for them in the market. As has been pointed out, FedEX and UPS are doing a booming business competing with the USPS. If the government is so awful at running things, then the private insurance industry should be scoffing, not pouring money into opposing reform.
     
  18. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    So, you prefer that your health decisions are made by a corporation with no allegiance but to the almighty dollar?
     
  19. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    andygladiatorrmoonrowdy...

    thoughts on this?

     
  20. uolj

    uolj Member

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    It's not crazy, it's a legitimate point of view.

    But we have elections to determine whose point of view gets implemented. We've had a good mix of viewpoints in power at various times recently (as much as the current two party system can provide), and those on the "losing" end sometimes have to deal with solving problems in ways that go against their own political philosophies.

    But to bring back to the topic, simply referring to single-payer or socialized medicine directly as a beef with the current health care reform is a misleading scare tactic. If people bring it up because they're afraid that it will happen eventually, then that's fair but they have to spell that out.
     

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