Egg-zactly...I don't think they'd even consider getting rid of Battier unless we come out on the winning end of the deal (in our opinion). But that's just what it is...different peoples opinions of what is an "equal" or "better than equal" trade...we'd probably all disagree on who is and isn't worth it...wonder who we can agree is worth the trade and don't say LeBron!
Alright folks, obviously many of you are tired of pointless speculation, but hey...what else do you have to do at work today? Clearly as little as I did between my classes today if you are reading. I've constructed a 4-team trade between Houston, Portland, GoldenState, and Utah (yea...sorry the j*zz). So here we go: Houston receives: K. Fresenko (from utah) R. Fernandez (from portland) Portland receives: S. Battier (from htown) S. Jackson (from GS) Golden State receives: C. Boozer (from utah) J. Bayless (from portland) The j*zz receive: A. Biedrins (from GS) T. Outlaw (from portland) Making our line up: PG: Brooks/Lowry SG: Fernadez/Budinger/T-Mac SF: Ariza/White/Budinger PF: Scola/Landry/Hayes C: Anderson/Fresenko/Yao Alrighty, before you tear this apart, because I doubt a single proposal has made it through the opinionated gauntlet that is ClutchfanForums without being reamed, so here me out... Houston: -- Houston cuts about $4M in this, gets a solid cheap 7footer in Fresenko, and Rudy fills a glaring hole at SG. This still leaves Dorsey just sort of there. If/When Yao returns, we can readjust the PF/C chart to look something more like.... PF: Scola/Anderson C: Yao/Fresenko/Anderson ...giving us Landry and Hayes both up for trade. You can really rework Landry/Scola/Hayes/Dorsey however you would like, just an idea. Portland: They accomplish a few things in this. As I see it Portland is in win now mode and could seriously benefit from some veteran experience. Before you argue S. Jackson is a nut case and Outlaw would be more reliable, realize that when teams reach a point when they feel they are in contention for a title, they will take on head cases. See Marbury to Celtics, AI to Detroit, and Artest to Houston. Secondly, Portland is in a funny position. They have a huge position jam at the PG/SG slot. After this trade is done, they'd be left with ... PG - Blake/Miller SG - Roy/Webster So far so good? Golden State I've read a little bit between the GS and Utah forums and some combination of Boozer for Biedrins keeps popping up on both sides. So, running with that idea...GS washes their hands of Stephen Jackson and looks towards a future with Boozer. The addition of Bayless makes Speedy and Acie Law expendable. They also shed about $4M in the trade j*zz They add youth with potential. An upgrade at C with Biedrins coming in and Fresenko on his way out. On top of that, Boozer walks and they pick up Outlaw as a younger replacement. Phew... Ok so. Does it work? Trade Machine says so (for however much that is worth) The Hollinger Analysis: Houston: No Affect Portland: +2 Wins GS: -4 Wins Utah: +3 Wins Thoughts? Opinions? Please, lets hear 'em
Had Shane not been guarding Kobe during the playoffs last post-season, we would have been swept. Or at least lost in five.
I keep him unless a team offer much more back in terms of talent, much more. If a potential trade has roughly the same amount of talent coming back or a future 2nd round pick/protected 1st rounder or just cap relief I wouldnt do a trade I explained to moestavern19 earlier today why i would want to keep him even though we have a possible younger version of Shane now in Ariza that is cheaper. basically this was my argument leadership: last season there were 6 (though not all at the same time) leaders on the team, whether they are vocal or lead by example: Yao Tmac Rafer Ron Deke Shane 4 of those players are gone and only two remain, of those two you have Shane and Tmac. Now we dont know if and when exactly Tmac will be healthy enough to play actual NBA basketball despite people's optimism about the start of the season. Also McGrady's word has proven to be well, not worth very much and he has never been one to lead by example. That leaves Shane who is both the vocal leader (who led the team in pre-game speeches? shane did) and both on the court (have we ever accused Battier of not giving it his all out there? he has shown to have both and has earned the respect of his fellow teammates. I would not want the younger new Rockets having to listen to McGrady as a leader at all. Battier is the one I would want them listening to. Remember last year how he was injured to start the season he followed the team around wearing the now famous Red Blazer. His approach to the game is what the whole team imbibed and quite frankly is what made us all appreciate last years team so much, their 'never quit' attitude Next season will be a team that more than likely will employ more of Adelman's offense as there is no true 'star' scoring threat on the team. Battier while he may not score a lot (which some people rate too high as a gauge of offensive talent in a team concept) he runs the offense and keeps the ball moving to the correct spots. Mentoring, outside of Barry and Scola everyone on the team is young and needs to be shown what a professional player is like. Deke was that figure for Brooks, Landry, Chuck etc. Shane is another one of these guys that will teach the younger guys what proper preparation means in the NBA. Add in Ariza himself who plays good defense but relies on his athleticism more than his smarts right now to play. Shane can teach him about the different angles, tendencies and ways to guard and make Ariza a better defender than he ever was. (maybe even a pippin light in his prime...in terms of defense a combination of athleticism and intelligent defense) Defense: Shane is a great team and individual defender and is like a coach on the floor. How many times have we heard of how Shane knows exactly what the other team plans to do when signals are called out and barks the orders to the other players on the floor? Remember when he was injured at the beginning of the season last year and the Rockets played some poor defense? Especially transition defense? I mean the team played with a healthy Ron at the time too. While I am not attributing all of that to Shane, he is a huge part of the defensive culture that surrounds the Rockets. Him being able to guard the other teams best player consistently allows the other Rockets to play their man better without worry of having to help all the time. If the Rockets truly feel that the 09/10 season motto is "hold the fort" for the return of Yao then you absolutely need to keep Shane. Shane, as many mentioned, is an amazing piece to have for a contending team and thats what the Rockets brass hope to be again next season. Its not like shane is 35 or anything he will be turning 31 in the fall and has never been a player who has relied on his athleticism and keeps himself in great shape. I can see him having productive years till he is 36 in the league. If that is the case you absolutely need him when Yao is back. As JVG once said in SLAM magazine: I dont claim to have superior basketball knowledge over anyone else here but I will say JVG probably forgets more about basketball than I will ever know and if he thinks that highly of Shane then you know there is something to it. The Rockets hope to have a superstar back in 2010 maybe even another star player so why throw shane out just for one down season? The "great" free agent summer of 2010 will be a disappointment I believe. With the shrinking cap and the nature of the young players to 'follow the money' I would be surprised to see many players moving around this summer since they can get paid the most by their current team. Even if the Rockets had the max to offer chances are they wont be able to sign that max free agent, their best bet to get one of these 'big names' is through a trade primary using McGrady's contract (and the player himself) as the main piece. If Shane has to be part of that trade to bring back a Joe Johnson or Chris Bosh then you do it since then you can re-sign that big name with bird rights, but if Shane is being traded by himself for another role player I think the team would need to think what exactly it is trying to do for the future, is it going to 're-tool' or rebuild? Right now it seems, IMO, like the rockets are in 're-tool' mode and not rebuilding mode as most people would like to think. Which also leads me to believe if the general public reaction is that the Rockets are rebuilding with no Yao and a 20-30 game only McGrady then the offers Morey is going to get for Shane will be laughable as teams will try to pilfer the Rockets. On the flip side it creates little leverage for Morey to bring up deals to other GMs if they feel the Rockets are rebuilding. well thats my long rant flame away as needed..the OP's poll question is vague but my stance is to keep Battier unless the Rockets do get back much more talent in return, ie: they easily win out by the trade..it doesnt need to be a lopsided trade but clearly one where they are the beneficiaries (like chandler/okafor where its not lopsided but clearly NO wins the trade though they gave up decent talent)
QUESTION: Are we hindering Battier's success? Should we let him use his remaining good years attempting to get a ring? Rocket River D.Avocate
No idea? Want to look it up and share with us? I voted "trade him" - but only for equal value. The amount of brain-fart trades that I see on here for Battier (Songaila and Chucky Atkins??) just makes me scratch my head. His trade value grows as the season goes on - someone will get hit by an injury and be looking to add a defensive wing somewhere along the track. Doesn't worry me if we "stand pat" - I don't see that as a complete failure. Why people think Morey should be able to make whatever "ESPN trade checker" deal they fantasized up come into reality is beyond me....
battier is a great team player, great defensive stopper, and has high bball IQ. even then, i think we should trade him now, when his stock is as high as i see it being from this point on. if we get back fernandez or some solid young prospect, i'd do it. we have ariza now, we should go for someone who slash/has ball handling skills (sorry von, this just isnt you)
Keep him. Let Brooks, Scola, Ariza, Andersen, Landry, Lowry, Dorsey, Budinger, etc... use this year to develop. Without Yao, McGrady and Artest demanding touches, this will be career years for most/all of them, by far. I'd love to see what Scola can do as the main post-up guy and what Brooks can do when Adelman tells him to get out there and just run circles around the other guy and score a lot of points, and don't worry about keeping the 'superstars' happy... Battier, Barry and Hayes will be the veteran leadership. We have good chemistry and good character guys. Why trade them away for me-first types who you cannot count on when it matters? Hasn't this team been through enough of that? When Yao comes back and we use the 2010 cap space to sign a decent player, this might be the deepest team in the league...AND one of the youngest...
Unless a deal that would put the Rockets back in the elite status, The Team should just keep Battier. His worth is much more then what is shown in the box scores. He is the type of player every team would want.
If McGrady is indeed starting the season at full health, you got to TRADE him. Trade him for a scorer who can play the 2 and 3 so you can have Ariza start. We just signed Ariza for a REASON.
Don't see how anyone can answer this poll question. If the Rockets get a great deal that improves the team, of course I'd want to trade him. But I think he brings so much that isn't reflected in the stats -- defense, hustle, leadership, being a good locker room guy, all things that have contributed to the Rockets' success the past few years -- that I wouldn't mind keeping him at all. The Rockets would really have to get a lot back. So it just depends on the deal.
I find it quite hilarious that "keep him" is winning, and by a great margin, over "trade him (ASSUMING EQUAL OR BETTER DEAL)". It is a purely illogical stance without justification. The assuming equal or better deal part is so vague that it is all inclusive. If a GM finds something he considers a "better deal", why in the world would he pass it up? He would be hindering the franchises growth. I could see if this was an all time great like Olajuwon - yeah you want him to retire a rocket. But Battier? Yea, nice guy but move him when the opportunity presents itself. Trust me, he won't take it personal.
i see no reason trading battier who was our vocal leader in the playoffs especially against the lakers and our defensive leader.,his energy on the defensive end is just so contagious among the many other intangibles that he puts on the table night in and night out. so my opinion is HELL NO.,props to Ariza he's got talent and many upside,but he wont guard a kobe or a LBJ like battier does..and since we are likely to struggle offensively its very important to keep our best defenders for now at least.,i wont trade him for an offensive type of player.
