By the way, I've seen the 94 and 95 championship videos MANY TIMES before...rented them out from the library every time they were there.
let me say this to you again, MAXWELL was IMPORTANT TO THE ROCKETS, not just the 94 run. He and the team had to build experience and chemistry. You were 6, I'm not faulting you for that. I'm faulting you for thinking you know how it was back then. you DO NOT KNOW. YOU DO NOT KNOW: 1. How the city of Houston and the sports fans felt through years of failure, Buffalo Bills, John Elway, Daryl Strawberry... CHOKE CITY 2. Rocket fans who follow the team by AM Radio 3. the emotions of the entire era of fans, the Maxwell game winners, how every kid at school tried to replicate his shots 4. the winning of the first championship, one is just a number to you, but it was MORE THAN THAT to us that 3 pointer to beat the Knicks in game 7 was just one shot, you don't know how we felt when that shot went in. the emotion of the city, the hatred of the team by the media, the constant OJ Simpson trial stuff. Do not try to tell me about the 90s Rockets, I'm the one waving the BELIEVE again sign. so if you only know 2 things about Vernon Maxwell, that he helped the Rockets win 1 and he left in 95. that's not the complete picture. he meant alot to that team, else when he quit, people wouldn't have mixed feelings about it. When he came back to the Summit as a Sixer, he had alot of cheers and some boos too. You don't know that. So don't try to tell me about the 90s Rockets. I have 21000 posts, 20000 are about the 90s Rockets.
I'm sorry you can watch them a billion times, it doesn't tell give you the experience of being a fan at that period, and by the way, those were the 2 years we won, it's important to know how a fan felt before that, at the beginning of the era, the building of the team. the progress of how we slowly built the team by adding pieces, by gaining chemistry. ANd the same goes for me, I don't know crap about the Moses era, so when leebigez tries to paint a picture for me, I want to see it. SCREW THE STATS. And for the Dream and the battles with Seattle, don't tell that they had our number, tell me how they got away with illegal defense, how the refs missed monster calls, how Dream had 4 guys drenched on him with no calls and he still dunks on them.
Doesn't matter - you are arguing against a guy living in the past. He loves Maxwell and hates the guy currently on our team. I think your posts are spot on, very intelligent, mature, and great analysis. But save your energy with this one. Yao of course isn't Hakeem, and it's not fair to ask the question in this poll. I don't think you could plug Tim Duncun in there either. It's not about being good, people don't understand that the 94 and 95 Rockets were built around Hakeem. Everyone played around Hakeem. You put a Duncan in there, and it won't work. Duncan may be able to get better post position, but Tim isn't the passer out of double teams, nor can he get past a double team like Hakeem could. Hakeem was more of a high-post player and that helped a lot since you can't really double a guy that far out without leaving multiple guys open for 3's. Yao would have not have had to deal with so much fronting, but he's just not a guy who can physically dominate a younger version of shaq like Hakeem did. Yao would have lost that match-up, as well as struggled mightly againt Patrick Ewing and David Robinson. Yao did well against Shaq in Shaq's later years, but not his earlier ones. How much of that is Yao growth and Shaq's decline is debateablle. Finally, Vernon Maxwell was a good role-player for the 94 team. He was replaceable, and it's fortunate for him he was a guy in the right place at the right time. He's the only Houston Rocket Champion to not go on and perform well with his next team down the line. Everyone else who did not retire - Horry, Cassell, Elie, Thorpe - went on to contribute to playoff success with other teams and win rings, have deep playoff runs, etc. The one exception is Vernon Maxwell. The guy hit a few clutch shots for us, played some good D, but man, he was not a great shooter by any strech of the imagination. Hakeem was the man, V Maxwell was a role player who got to ride his coat-tails.
But Yao also is the era of no fantastic big men. His biggest competition is Dwight Howard. Hakeem played against Kareem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, and Mourning - and he out played them all.
I agree Max was important...I also know about Houston's many sports failures, including the Bills coming back from 35 points down, how we didn't win anything with Earl Campbell as an Oiler and how we were so close in 86 to a World Series, I know about Phi Slamma Jamma losing 3 years in a row in the Final 4...I know a bout that...I could imagine how frustrating that could be...I have to watch the Texans every week. My family didn't get cable til 2001, so every home game that was on cable, I listened to on the AM radio...still remember listening to the game vs. Dallas in 96 where Dream hit that inbound lob for a buzzer beating fadeaway with .04 tenths of a second left in the game...they showed that game on ESPN about 4 months a go...first time I ever got to see it happen on tv besides the news highlights. I also tried Maxwell;s buzzer beaters on my drive way (the GOlden State one and the Miami one...those were incredible shots) I know a lil bit about max...I was just stating the obvious ones...I knew how he scored 51 points and 30 in a quarter...I know he had 31 points in the 2nd half vs. PhX. Willie Burton of the 76ers scored 53 points vs the Heat in 1995 season, Tony Delk scored 51 points in a game before as well...anybody can get hot in a game...just being honest with ya...nobody knows who those guys are now. I know that the early 90's ROckets needed to build chemistry, but Dream, THorpe, Horry, Maxwell, SMith, Elie, Cassell, Brooks, Bullard, Herrera were all on the 94 team...it took all of them to complete that task, and Dream himself had to change as well. Max was important, but he was just a role player like the rest of the guys, minus Dream. I don't know how ppl could have mixed feelings about a guy leaving the team in the playoffs, but you see the legion of SF3 fans here...evn though he was just a highlight reel...fans don't always know everything. Theres still fans who want him back to this day...mind boggling to me. I'm not doubting your knowledge about the team...but I have older cousins/friends who grew up as teenagers in the championship years, so I get my information too...don't underestimate my knowledge that I've learned. I had the "Believe It" signs from the 97 run that they passed out in the Chronicle. Don't just assume that since your older than me that you automatically know more...I get my information as well. You have a slight edge since you lived through that time, but I do my research and I've been getting information for 14-15 years now about those teams. I know how big that 1st title was to the city of Houston...the NBC telecast showed the failures of Houston Sports during the 4th quarter of Game 7 vs the Knicks...Marv Albert was just talking about it with some video clips playing.
I know about the illegal defense that they got away with, but if the refs don't call it, what can you do?? YOu don't seem to give Tmac the benefit of the doubt when the Refs called "moving screens" on Yao...or missed that Finley call in game 5. I was just stating that I watched those videos beacsue you don't have ot post them for me...of course I know thats not the whole story. The Horry and cassell draft picks at 24 were huge...the trade with Detroit not going through was huge. Picking up Thorpe, Smith, Max, Herrera, and Elie were important as well...and Dream growing as a person helped as well, started when he was out with the eye injury, when he saw that his teammates could produce. Screw the stats???? Those are as factual as you get...they don't tell everything, but tehy sure do tell a lot man. Can't ignore the facts...
I don't know...Duncan in 03 was impressive without star power...but I do see your point...Dream definetily was more versatile by a lot. Duncan isn't a bad passer, but he can't finish through double teams the way dream did...I think Duncan's the closest though for sure.
Living through those times, you didn't have the internet or the Rockets didn't have the national media attention that they do now. You had watch the news or read the newspapers or read sports magazines to get the full picture of the NBA. So Marv Albert had a video, you couldn't feel the pent up emotions that Houston had a as a city. its not possible to recreate now. Oh, and For Sweet Lou 4 2, he's a formerly banned poster who was banned for being extremely disrespectful to other posters (note posters not poster) and Clutch banned him while watching a Rockets game. Yours truly has never been banned. You could be the best Michael Jackson fan who never lived when Thriller came out, but you wouldn't know how it felt at the time when MTV really played music videos, everyone listened to the radio and bought cassettes. You can't imagine how pop music was listened by everyone. You can't replicate the emotions of the time. that's all i'm saying.
I agree on an emotional level, it can't be recreated...I'm HUGE Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix fan, but not being alive in the 60's/70s , I don't have the same passion for their music like teens/young adults back then...No matter what I did to try to recreate the 60s in my stupid days, its still not the same when Vietnam was going on, the cultural revolution, etc. and all the teens/young adults were rebelling against what society told them they had to do... but I have read books on them, I've got DVDs on them, documentaries, intervviews, watched numerous tv shows about it, concerts...thats as much as I can do to understand the times and the music. Its hard to fathom how popular Michael Jackson was in the 80's...still hard to believe Thriller sold 100 million + albums...freakin unheard of...wish there was good music being made today..."sigh"...won't ever see a star that big again. I see how big a star he was, but its still hard to believe...I thought Michael Jordan was big in the 90's worldwide...Michael Jackson made him look like an ordinary athlete compared to his superstardom. my older sister was a HUGE Maxwell fan, but she still hated the fact that he left the team...sshe was 11 at the time. She kinda got over it since we won, but it still bothered her a little bit. My family only came to America in 1991, but they quickly became Rockets fans, and I joined them in 94, but I do as much research as I can from the 80's and 90's...because thats all I can do...if its on the court stuff, I can hold my own with knowledge...but emotional level with the times and environment...can never be replicated. But I read books on Hakeem, watched numerous games of hakeem taht they show on TV, youtube, recorded games, etc., I watched interviews, and I look up stats and see how they relate to a team's success and failures. I cant do anything more...if I had a time machine...i would use it to tell Jordan not to retire in 94 and maybe we all get to see the dream matchup of Olajuwon vs. Jordan. BUt thats not possible unfortunately... BUt I know I missed out on a great era of basketball in general...wish I could've been alive and old enough to remember the 80's & 90's.
I'm impressed that you have done so much research on the Rockets. Maxwell and the Rockets have put the incident past them. It's been along time after all. He was not the bad guy people portrayed him to be and his personal life is his personal life. He mentions in the book (Keeping it Real - http://januarymagazine.com/nonfiction/keepinit.html) about his Houston years and his friends on the team. 'Through Vernon Maxwell we see how these pressures wreak havoc not only on the court but within the players' personal lives. ') its a good read and you'll get to know the whole Maxwell story. People really weren't that mad with Maxwell, maybe it was because we won another title or because time has passed. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1326831 ""I don't think too much about Houston," he said. ""I watch them play all the time. Those guys are still my friends. But I don't think about playing in Houston or that they're winning and I'm losing. I don't think about that at all." And then, he added: ""With Clyde (Drexler out with a knee injury), they could use me now. But they'll be OK." Sam Cassell, Mario Elie and Kenny Smith are very close to Maxwell, but the former Rockets guard said people would be surprised to learn that Hakeem Olajuwon was his best friend on the team. ""Dream was someone I looked up to," Maxwell said. ""I really respected him a lot for the way he changed his life with his religious beliefs. I'm sure it's hard for people to believe, but we were really good friends. I felt like he genuinely cared about me as a person, not just a basketball player. ""He knew that I was one of the guys who was going to play hard every night. But Mario, Sam and Kenny are my boys, too. Kenny and I are so close that my kids call him Uncle Kenny. So it's going to be great to spend some time with all of those guys." ""I felt like a lot of the people who didn't even know me were unfair," he said. ""But there were a lot of people in Houston who really liked me, too. I like Philly. It's a blue-collar town, and the people are very friendly - very genuine. They don't judge you for situations you've been through in the past. After all, it's the City of Brotherly Love. People who sit down and get to know me realize I'm not this bad person everyone thinks I am. I'm not a lunatic. I'm not going to go out and murder someone. I'm just Vernon." -WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE Date: THU 02/29/1996 Section: Sports Page: 3 Edition: 3 STAR Rudy T fondly recalls Maxwell's true grit Even though he experienced one of the lowest points of his career when Vernon Maxwell walked out on the Rockets in last year's playoff run, coach Rudy Tomjanovich preferred to remember the good times with his often-volatile guard. ""That dealing with the trade, that was basically what happened," Tomjanovich said. ""He didn't handle it well. I'll go through any tough situation with players, and I would have worked through that one, too. I thought we could have worked through that. I thought it could be done." But that's in the past, Tomjanovich said. ""He was a special-type guy - a warrior," Tomjanovich added. ""When you look at the stats, you'd say, `How in the hell can you be playing this guy?' His stats were way down, shooting-wise, but he made big shots and was always rising to the occasion. We had several tiffs, but they were like family."
Tinman, you are one of my favorite Rockets posters here, but I was 6 years old at the time of the championships as well. And I was at EVERY game. I went to every home playoff game during both championship runs. I did a lot of those things you mention, although you were older. But I still remember. i don't know this guy's situation, but I just thought I would let you know that it is possible to know about those teams first hand even at a young age (although it is not likely that many others did what I did ).
I'm just a big Rockets fan like yourself...I unfortunately missed out on a great era, so I have to catch up in a sense...when I was around 6 or 7 I would usually just read biographies about NBA players such as Hakeem, Clyde, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Robinson, Ewing, and anybody else who was popular in the 90's. Then I got curious and asked my family about the Rockets from 93 to 95 and from there I was just fascninated with Dream...would put the tapes in slow motion and then try to emulate the Dream shake outside in my drive way a few minutes later... did the same with Jordan games as well....really taught me how to use my pivot well...even today with me being really out of shape, I can still out smart people using just my footwork and pump fakes. Like I've said before...winning cures a lot of things...ask Kobe, ask Pierce, Dream, etc. so I think that had a lot to do with Maxwell and the Rockets getting over it, but thats just my personal opinion. He does deserve recognition for being a part of the 1st major championship in Houston pro sports. But I don't know if it would've went so smooth if we had lost to Utah or lost in Game 5 to Pheonix. Max was definetily a competitor though when he played...similar to Artest. I'm not the biggest fans of theirs, because of their shot selection and sometimes lack of bball IQ...but they had that edge that teams need sometimes. Reason why Rodman was always one of my favorite players...he knew how to win and he beat the other team mentally before he beat them physically...but he was much better at sticking to his role. But I think we're on the same page, but you have more of a personal feel for the 90's rockets while I have to rely on basketball-reference.com (which is an amazing site), articles, books, videos, old game tapes, etc. But I'm in your shoes when I get to tell my younger cousin about how great Jordan was...its crazy that young kids believe Kobe is the best player ever cuz he can score a lot of points...almost sad.
I wish I got to do what you did...I didn't even get to watch home games til our family got cable in 2001. I've only been to 3 Rockets games 1 in the Franchise Mobley Era and 2 in the Tmac Yao era...but I watched the old games when I was older and when I could understand the game better.... Just glad that I got to watch Dream and Clyde period.
just so you know if vernon read every single post on here that you have typed about him he would be really freaked out.
Nah, he would think I got his back. Think about if Yao read clutchfans and saw people posting about his haircut!
I bet if you put this guy in his prime on those rockets teams they would win the ring. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M1xlhGg-lCo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M1xlhGg-lCo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
If its Moses from the 70s and 80s sure...not Moses in 94 though Didn't get to see him play in his prime, but from that video he was a beast!! If it wasn't for him at Fonde, we may have never witnessed Dream in the NBA...I can't judge Moses though, since I didn't get to see him play too much.
