Kick a$$ post tbgain NEVER AGAIN will Jews be terrorized and pushed around. Peace is the ultimate goal. But if it takes a war to get it, so be it.
Seems like most of 'our' Arab terrorists were 'well' educated. I think we should revise our assumptions, and start using 'poorly' educated, i.e., educated to hate.
Many of the bombers were college students, the first female bomber was studying to become a doctor; the "lack of education" argument doesn't really apply here.
Who is the Bad Guy here? I think they are as bad as each other! There will never be a chance of Peace till Sharone is no longer in charge and the rest of the World tells Muslims that when you kill yourself you are commiting Suicide and will go to Hell! To be a Martyr you have to be killed by someone for your religious belief. Once they get this in their head then and only then can Arabs and Jews find just how close they are... Brothers believing in God the Creator and Sustainer of Life.
There's no way their as bad as each other. Everything Israel does is in response to aggression. Yes, mistakes happen and innocent people die. But, Israel is not the one intentionally targetting civilians. Furthermore, their not doing it with sneak attack suicide bombers. The situation has gone on so long that the militants and Palestinians think violence against Israel is their only way. However, they hurt their cause every time an Israeli civilian dies, a gun battle ensues, or a suicide bomb explodes. This type of behavior will never be rewarded in a civilized world and the civilized world will never accept a terrorist state. Until the Palestinians realize that political dialogue and reform are their only way, not only will they not have a state of their own...but all that has been going on will continue. If Palestinians and/or militants did not attack Israel, then there would be no violence. There would be a resumption of a course toward dialogue and resumption of peace talks/negotiations. Militants know how to sidetrack this process....just send in another suicide bomber. So, no way are the two sides just as bad as each other. Militants play on this exact scenario. They know if they attack or suicide bomb, that Israel will have to do something about it in response or it will continue. This feeds what the militants want....incursions which hurt the average Palestinian civilians. You don't see Israel doing this to their own people. The argument that if Israel stops...the violence will stop...is not only shallow but hollow. It's the militants who keep Palestinians in the situation their in and the PA for not reigning in the militants(and even assisting). Now, the big thing is militants assisting Palestinian civilians into suicide bombing.
Many Muslim governments don't have a clue about dealing with other countries in a civilized, political fashion. Look at Pakistan and India. Were it not for the West stepping into that situation, those boneheaded nations would have certainly had a nuclear war. No discipline whatsoever. Everyone on earth should know by now that there will be no peace in the Middle East as long as Israel exists. Even if the Palestinians got their own land with a border and their own government (hell, I'll even throw in the city of Jerusalem), AND THEY (ARAB NATIONS) WOULD FIND A REASON TO ATTACK ISRAEL. Israel knows this and that's why they are resisting giving the Palestinians anything. And why should they? The land that became Israel was CONQUERED in 1948, just as our land was conquered from the Indians and Mexicans during the infancy of United States. What is the difference?
Has anybody here read "Exodus" by Leon Uris? Although it's a fictionalized account of the birth of Israel, and the protagonists use terrorism as a strategy -- and it worked, both in fiction and in real life. If the Jews were applauded for it, then why not the Arabs? I am neutral in this conflict, but it is strange to see once again that what goes around comes around.
Too bad that, long ago, when the Palestinians were peaceful... everyone ignored their cause. The bombings brought Israel to the table. You're right, in one thing: force is the only thing anybody seems to understand. But it works both ways. The Israelis, if they have what they want without threat will never relent. Just the way the world works . Harpers had some really interesting statistics on the situation in their most recent Index... don't have the magazine with me, so I won't quote them. But that's always my favorite part of the magazine .
When exactly were the Arabs "peaceful" about the existence of Israel? Do you mean "long ago", in a galaxy far, far away?? btw, nice attempt to justify suicide bombings.
The Jews used terrorism against British soldiers. The Palestinians use terrorism against Israeli civilians, namely women and children. Do you see the difference?
Agreed, RocketMan...these kinds of arguments frustrate the heck out of me...if people don't make any distinction between targeting military or strategic points and targeting civilians, then there is very little common ground for meaningful discussion, in my view. One of the reasons why I've really stopped arguing about this here...
I'm getting there very quickly myself. If someone can't see the difference between targeting the military and targeting civilians, what's the point of discussing it with them?
A Christian friend sent this in to me the other day, and I am trying to find the source to verify it still, although I do know that at least a handful of the below are 100% factual. Seeing as this thread is predominantly pro-Israel, I expect some critisms, which is cool. I don't expect it to alter your views or even make you feel sorry for the Palestinians, I just hope it will help you keep an open mind, and realize Israel is not just a mere victim. 30 Little-Known Facts About Israel 1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in Israel? A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel, while the Palestinians who have been there for centuries are oppressed and persecuted. 2.Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews? 3. Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel? 4. Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron's 120, 000 Palestinians? 5.Did you know that the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars? 6.Did you know that US aid to Israel ($1.8 billion annually in military aid alone) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel. 7. Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel's main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors. 8. Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used? (In 1978, 1979 and 1982 during fighting in Lebanon, and once after Israel's bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.) 9. Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites? 10. Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces? 11. Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it? (Imagine if an Islamic country like Iraq did this!) 12. Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions? 13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character? 14. Did you know that Israel's current Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally and directly responsible" for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood? 15. Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? The terrified laborers who gathered in an area of southern Israel known as Rishon Lezion (known to Palestinians by its Arabic name Oyon Qara) handed their ID cards to the Israeli soldier. The soldiers ordered the distressed laborers to kneel down and face the ground and unexpectedly showered them with a barrage of bullets, killing seven and wounding many others. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime. 16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads? 17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public? 18. Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party--Molodet--which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories? 19. Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948? 20. Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: "The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable." 21. Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world? 22. Did you know that Palestinian Christians are considered the "living stones" of Christianity because they are the direct descendants of the disciples of Jesus Christ? And the Palestinian Christians stand united with their Muslim brethren in the struggle against the Israeli occupation. 23. Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel's High Court of Justice, torture has continued unabated by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners? 24. Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world? 25. Did you know that the right of self-determination is guaranteed to every human being under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [December, 1948], yet Palestinians were/are expected to negotiate for this right under the Oslo Accords? 26. Did you know that despite what is widely perpetuated and written in the history books that the Arabs attacked Israel in the 1967 war, it was Israel who attacked the Arab countries first, capturing Jerusalem and the West Bank, and called the attack a pre-emptive strike? 27. Did you know that, as an occupying power, Israel has a particular responsibility under the Geneva Conventions to protect Palestinian civilians? 28. Did you know that, despite Ariel Sharon's public call for a unilateral ceasefire, Israeli soldiers have not stopped shooting, killing or bulldozing Palestinian homes? The most recent example of this is the murder of three innocent women who were shot by an Israeli tank as they sat in their tent! 29. Did you know that the Zionists have been trying to destroy Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock for the last 50 years by digging underground tunnels beneath the sites to weaken its foundation causing it to collapse? 30) Nelson Mandela called the Israeli government an apartheid regime, just like South Africa used to be. Azim da Dream
Your 30 facts are "little known" for a reason, I am sure. By the way, some of the most hardcore Nazis I have encountered on the internet claimed to be Christian. 1. From an Israeli govt. website- In the early part of the century, the Jewish National Fund was established by the World Zionist Congress to purchase land in Palestine for Jewish settlement. This land, and that acquired after Israel's War of Independence, was taken over by the government. Of the total area of Israel, 92 percent belongs to the State and is managed by the Land Management Authority. It is not for sale to anyone, Jew or Arab. The remaining 8 percent of the territory is privately owned. The Arab Waqf, for example, owns land that is for the express use and benefit of Muslim Arabs Government land can be leased by anyone, regardless of race, religion or sex. All Arab citizens of Israel are eligible to lease government land. In the occupied territories, Arabs found to have sold land to Jews are executed. Quite a contrast, yes? 2. This charge is baseless. West Bank cars have different license plates than Israeli cars, just like we have different plates for different states. Jew and Arabs within Israel have the same license plates. 3. Agreed. 4. This is frankly unbelievable. 400 people have 6 times as much water as 120,000? I cannot verify this claim, but it seems silly. 5. Agreed. 6. We gave more than 1.8 billion to Egypt alone last year. 7. Saudi Arabia and Egypt both possess our military equipment. I am glad though, that we have sided with the only representative democracy in the Middle East in this matter. We should respect governments that respect their people. 8. Agree 9. Thank goodness. Israel has a right to defend itself, and its nuclear weapons are the only reason that the Arabs have not attacked en masse in the last 20 years, imo. 10. Agreed. War is hell, so perhaps the Palestinians should stop attacking. 11. The Liberty was a tragic mistake. 12. Palestinians have historically NEVER respected the will of the United Nations. From trying to deny Israel its very right to exist, to ignoring the "Blue Line", the Palestinians are hypocrites when United Nations violations are even mentioned. http://www.israelemb.org/articals/2001041701.html 13. The majority of Arabs live in theocracies, yet they complain about "Jewish Character" in a secular republic like Israel?? Please! 14. This is a lie. Sharon was relieved of his command because his superiors felt he should have known better than to let the Christian militia enter the refugee camps. Your email cleverly twists words, but educated people won't be fooled. 15. The man was not an Israeli soldier, but he was a murderer. Why do Arab propagandists make claims that are so easily refuted? What is the point of saying he was a soldier when he was not? 16. Agreed. 17. Agreed. Arabs do the same, and I don't blame either group for lobbying within the U.S. 18. This is what happens in Democracy. People with extreme views are allowed to live, which does not happen in some Arab countries. 19. Agreed. 20. Agreed. Once again, that darn freedom of speech is revolting sometimes, isn't it??? Perhaps the Arab world should try it out. 21. This issue is too complicated to argue in this space. 22. Most Palestinian Christians I have seen in the news are calling for NON-VIOLENT resistance. Too bad the Muslims don't listen- they will get their way much more quickly this way. 23. Agreed. If a Palestinians knows about a bomb that is about to blow up children, and he is not talking- he deserves to be tortured. 24. Agreed. 25. Arafat refused to stand for re-election in 2000! The Arabs in the occupied territories don't have self-determination because of their leader. 26. Agreed. It was a brilliant move that diverted disaster for the Israeli people. 27. Agreed. That is why Israel lost 28 men in Jenin, going door to door trying to avoid killing non-combatants. If the Israelis did not care about the civilians, they could have just leveled the whole town and not lost a man. 28. I don't know of that incident, but war truly is HELL. 29. Muslims don't want excavation work under the Mosque done because Jewish history will be unvealed. That is just my opinion. 30. Nelson Mandela?? Who cares what that commie thinks?? LARGE
