Well, I played college sports and had my knee reconstructed, so I think I would know a little bit about playing with knee pain. But hey, since you seem to know so much about me, you should have known that already. AND HE DID NOT QUIT BECAUSE HE WAS INJURED. Sorry, but you Tmac lovers cannot change HISTORY. He said it was because he was "frustrated" because he wasn't getting the ball. But I guess that makes it okay because it was TMac Black Knight, the bottom line is that you are supporting a guy who quit on his teammates. Me, personally, when a guy gets paid over $20mm to LEAD this team and to play a huge role, I guess I expect effort. And your analogy is terrible... Also love how you, in your defense of the quitter, try to make up excuses for the guy. What's your excuse for him telling the media that he was having motivational problems as well last season? Is $23 million not enough to keep you motivated? Is having an entire city of fans (not to mention teammates) depending on you to give your all not motivation enough? What's your excuse for that? "Just Tmac talking too much"? Sorry, but I have been a Rockets fan since I was 7 years old (Dad had season tix) and am now 32, and I have NEVER seen a Rocket (other than Mad Max) quit on this team...much less in the middle of a game and NEVER the way that he did...he screwed his teammates...made them play 4 on 5. Nothing to do with the injury. A hurt knee means you have to stand ONE FOOT inside the half court line and refusing to even hold the ball is because of a knee hurting? Admitting afterwards that you were frustrated and that led to you screwing your team and fans over is okay? You say I only mention one thing, and forget about his history, well how about refusing to play in Adelman's offense game in and game out last season? If you think I'm lying, watch some early games. When he didn't have the ball, he NEVER set screens, never made any cuts, never MOVED from his spot at the three point line...even though the OTHER 4 players on the TEAM were trying to execute it. If he can't ISO on a screen at the top of the key, he refused to participate. He also refused to defend all season long...and this was a problem last season as well. I'm sure you will have convenient excuses about that as well or will link me to a youtube video showing Ray Allen not moving without the ball on one play last year...somehow, though your weird logic, making it okay in your mind. See, I am not a quitter. I stated my opinion...you know...one based on FACTS, and your rebuttal is your conjectures and opinions based on your feelings about TMac...and you try to use examples of players (Kobe..the guy who has played basketball for two years straight and with a shooting finger that needed surgery...as a comparison is laughable) to JUSTIFY Tmac quitting. What are we debating? You admit he quit...but apparently you don't have a problem with that. I do.
What games were you watching?? I saw Tmac move plenty without the ball when he was healthy in 2008. In all honesty, that team didn't match up well with Adelman's offense. We didn't have the shooters and the only guy who could pass decently were Rafer and Tmac, both who need the ball in their hands to do so. HOw is my opinion not based on facts?? I gave you links, I said he quit on ONE GAME. I agree with you on the ONE GAME. I just don't think his entire career should be judged based on ONE DAY. If I was judged on the worst thing I've ever done in my life, then I would never be given a job, or be given a chance in life. The same would probably go for everybody. I'm 20 years old right now, but if I was judged based on what I did as a dumb 16 year old, then man I might as well just give up...I mean people aren't going to forgive me for doing the minor things that I did. Why should I even bother to try to make something of myself in college, or have a family of my own someday?? People are just going to remember some stupid thing I did as a dumb 16 year old right?? And please, how is my analogy terrible?? Did he not lead our team to 3 50+ win seasons, did he not lead us to winning records when Yao was out?? Did he not give it his all with old and unathletic rosters? Look at the box scores throughout the years and see how much help Tmac and Yao have consistently gotten. Only by 2008 did they get any type of help. I'm not saying Tmac deserves all the credit, but he along with Yao was a major factor in us winning I mean, your basing your hate on him after ONE F****N GAME! If your boss were to judge you based on one bad day, where your co-workers were almost just as bad, but YOU got ALL THE BLAME, wouldn't you be atleast the slightest bit upset? Thats basically what your doing to Tmac...your putting him under a microscope, while you just let everything slide for the others. Honestly, I was a little upset that he quit on ONE GAME. But you know what, I also realized that he was playing through a serious injury, and that he's done a lot throughout his career, yet he still gets the raw end of the deal EVERY TIME, and with some people (not you) he even manages to get criticized for trynig to do something good, thats MUCH MORE important than Basketball. I mean, I can honestly see why he made those those "its my fault" comments...he can't do ANYTHING to please some fans out there. Have you never heard of forgiveness, redemption? A 2nd chance? I bet you would love it if people never forgave you or forgot about something wrong that you've done once in your life or if people don't allow you to redeem yourself I can understand if the man said something hateful to a group of people or killed somebody, raped somebody , beat somebody up (Barkley), did hard drugs while he was employed by us (some former rockets in 87), beat his wife/girlfriend....those things are pretty hard to forgive in my book, but because he didn't give 110 % one game, you wanna crucify the guy...cmon man, get over it...its just a game! Just ONE GAME at that.
These issues have followed McGrady his entire career. Every year it's the same complaint with a slightly modified excuse.
Dude, he didn't move without the ball. It's true. As I stated before, I was a Tmac fan. I don't think he was responsible for his playoff failures on Orlando (they were overmatched every time and his supporting cast sucked) or Houston (he played well for the most part). I remember his effort in 05 and 06. I never said he was faking injuries in 07-08...Hell, I even gave him the benefit of the doubt for QUITTING on Orlando (something you have not mentioned when talking about forming an opinion of him...see, it was more than one game) However, my opinion (MY opinion) is this as far as last season: -Many people claimed he didn't rehab hard after knee surgery. -Comes back without his knee 100% because of his slacking at rehab (coming from someone who has had major surgery, this isn't something you can half-ass) then immediately starts complaining. -Allegedly kills lockerroom chemistry this season with his "no back to back games" and his attitude. Even Deke said when he came back that it was horrible in there. It changed afterwards...once Tmac was gone -Decides to take a mid season break to finally get into shape and strengthen the knee...something that he should have done in the summer but apparently half-assed -QUITS in the Toronto game (HUGE no-no for me...I disagree with your analogy...he is paid $300,000 per game...he didn't even give a little effort. Also, he isn't a 16 year old kid...he's a GROWN MAN and he has a history of quitting before this game) -Then, when he hears his name in trade rumors, announces that he has to have microfracture surgery, even though team doctors and others have not agreed on that yet, which effectively KILLS his trade value and allows him to not to have to go to a crappy team). Also, I know he ended up getting the surgery, but he did NOT know 100% that it was necessary but decided to annouce it via the media (as in not informing the team about it), which screws us because it makes him untradeable. -Does not play one lick of defense all season long despite his teammates giving their all on both ends of the court -Complains, even though we are winning and trying to gel as a team, that he doesn't like the offense when it doesn't run through him -Refuses to play off the ball at all. Stands around at the top of the key or beside the top of the key without moving while his teammates try to run an offense because it doesn't feature him predominantly. BTW, I have about 20 games tivo'd and he played in 3 or 4 of them and this is ABSOLUTELY the case -Then throws his teammates under the bus by telling the media that if he had better players, he would have won championships. -Tells the media that he had problems getting motivated last season, despite the fact that we trade for Artest and have, on paper, one of the most talented and deep teams in the NBA AND he makes $300K per game AND he is supposed to be a "franchise" player. I mean, this isn't like he was playing on a lottery team and sick of losing The combination of all those things, plus his history beforehand (which I originally refused to believe), has made me dislike TMac. I will happily admit that he is very talented and had some great moments as a Rocket early on, but the combination of everything last season made me sick to my stomach. Like I said, I USED to be a Tmac defender. His talent and flashes of brilliance blinded me to his lack of caring and heart. He just doesn't have that killer instinct and cares more about Tracy McGrady than he does the Houston Rockets. That I have a problem with....because I am a ROCKETS fan and when a locker room cancer screws the team over and cares about himself over the TEAM, then I want the cancer removed. May he never wear a Rockets jersey again...
The guy had an injury all year long. What is he suppose to do? I think he realized that he was sucking badly and the team was better without him this year so he went with surgery to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. He gets to repair his injured knee and he also let the rockets gel as a team. Would you really want tmac to be limping on one leg for the rest of the season and suck? but this is all imo.
The team gelled by themselves, not because Tmac 'let' them. No credit should be given at all for the playoff success last year to Tmac, not a gram of credit.
GREAT Post! Good quality imo. Would rep if i could. This is the text form of what most Rockets fans are thinking I imagine. It certainly works for me. Although, I want the Rockets to take advantage of the remaining time on his contract by either trading for a superstar (unlikely) or letting him play in a Rockets jersey when he gets back next season. Hopefully a 75% Tmac will be somewhat useful then.
Look, I was frustrated with Tmac after last season too, I think we agree on that. He had a HORRIBLE season. There's no denying that. However, people can claim many things, but if they didn't work out with Tmac himself, they really don't know how hard he rehabbed his knee. Dwayne Wade came back in 2007-08 season with his knee and shoulder really messed up, and he never regained his form that season...can people assume that he didn't rehab hard either? Then, David Aldridge writes a false report, in which Tmac and Yao both completely deny...I'm more inclined to believe the actual players than a reporter who glances at 30 teams to get his info. Who's to say that it wasn't Rafer Alston or Ron Artest who started the tension...you know they didn't exactly have a great relationship. That was even apparent on the court as well at times. As far as the "chemistry" getting better once an injured Tmac was not playing, winning can cure chemistry problems most of the time. TMac was obviously hurting the team last year with his knee situation, so once he left, of course the team got better...they were healthy. I agree with you about the Toronto game, but like I said, thats ONE GAME...the next game, vs. Philly, he played 42 minutes, including the entire 2nd half, and I saw him grimmace through out the game, forcing himself to run, obviously he got the message that what he did the previous game wasn't right, injured or not, so he fought through the pain and played more than anybody else that night. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200901060PHI.html As far as him announcing his microfracture surgery, the only thing I didn't like was the fact that he didn't tell Rick Adelman. Other than that, I am very fishy about the Rockets medical staff. They've screwed up on Tmac and Yao many times. If Pheonix can keep a 37 year old Shaq healthy, they should be able to keep Yao and Tmac relatively healthy. Team Doctors are paid to get their players to play on the court to be able to generate more $. I've read and seen many videos of team doctors in various sports looking out for the team's $ instead of the players health. I'll always trust the player over a team doctor. Also, microfracture surgery was an option after the 2008 playoffs. He probably should've had it then, but decided not to, in hopes of trying to help the Rockets succeed. So Tmac announcing that he needed microfracture surgery wans't all that big a deal to me, considering he probably knew for a few months that he may need it. Besides, I'm glad we didn't trade for Carter anyways...he's 33 years old, and has a contract til 2011. We have no chance to improve in the near future if that trade happened. But how do any of us really know Tmac made the announcement because of the trade rumors?? He's been rumored for a couple of years now...I really don't think that was why, but none of us really know. He didn't play one lick of defense?? I know there were games where he had 2-4 steals. I remember one particular game vs. Philly (the game after Toronto) where he stole the ball from Iguadala on 3 straight possessions in the 4th quarter to try to win the game for us. Even when he missed the dunk in Milwakee, the possession started off with Tmac stealing the ball from the perimeter. I know his defense wasn't great, but the man's knee was seriously injured. You should know that an injured knee takes away a lot of mobility and lateral quickness, and playing against NBA level talent, that just won't work out. That was part of the reason why he had to shut it down. His defense was suffering the most because of the injury. Last year, Tmac didn't play off the ball, and probably complained because of the fact that he couldn't really play off the ball in his condition. When your injured, your mind and psyche suffer as well, along with your confidence. He was frustrated. Sure we were winning, but ALL the blame was going towards Tmac for our losses, as usual. The mid season break, was an attempt to be able to come back strong and to stop the "every other game" plan. He tried, and it didn't work out. When did he throw his teammates under the bus last year? I know a few years ago when the Kobe vs. Tmac debates were going on, he said "If I had Shaq, I could just as easily have 3 titles as well". (he had crap in Orlando) Then after the Game 7 loss to Utah, he said "we could use some more athleticism" (which was true), but other than that what did he say? I honestly don't remember him saying anything last year. When did he tell the media he had motivational problems?? I know in 2006 he said that, when 9 family members/close friends of his passed away that year...which is understandable. But last year, he decided to come back early because he was excited to play with Ron Artest and knew that Battier would be out the 1st few weeks of the season, so he felt it was important for him to try and help the team get off to a good start. I don't remember him saying he had motivational issues...this was the best supporting cast he ever had!! He said that himself... Also, I don't see how Tmac is selfish...He's always been moret han willing to pass,and help teammates get open shots. How is that caring about himself more than the team? If he cared about himself, he would've aimed for 3 more scoring titles instead of helping the Rockets get 50+ wins 3/4 years and HCA twice. As far as him quitting in Toronto, I explained in an earlier post...but basically Orlando management told him, they were going to tank that season to get the #1 pick (with a Hockey GM in charge who's now out of the NBA), but asked Tmac to play great to help them sell tickets. They gave him Juwan Howard, DeShaun stevenson, and Drew Gooden, with a bunch of other crap...tell me you wouldn't be the slightest bit upset over that kind of treatment, when you've had to carry that team with minimal help, then you take away that minimal help and are asked to basically be a circus act...can't blame him on that one.
Vince Carter on the Raptors, Boozer on the Cavs, Pippen on the Rockets. What about Orlando? You obviously do not know the situation since the GM called McGrady names various time when he did nothing but carry that Orlando team for 4 years. Your argument about quitting is based on one game therefore it is r****ded... I will respect the OP and will now cease..
What is this thread about? What did the person who created this thread mentioned? This is a Tmac appreciation thread and NO bashing. If you want to bash, do it on a tmac bashing thread or something. This goes for ANTISONIC also. Ya don't care if Tmac is doing good or not. Ya don't care even if he takes a game winning shot for the Rockets because he is still going to be bash. I know he had a bad season with us but since the day he wore a Rockets uniform, he is the one that made us look good even though we had guys like J.Howard, David Westley and etc. I know we never got out of the first round with him but its not his fault. When the team is doing good, Yao and the whole team gets the credit. But when we lose, people like ya point fingers at him. I know Yao is a good player and he is loyal to the Rockets but without Tmac, the Rockets would be nothing back then. Imagine the season before we had scola brooks or landry...If we lost tmac, our team would be nothing. That 22 win streak? WOuld never happen if Tmac wouldn't be playing. This season, if we had a healthy tmac instead of Yao to go along with this Ron artest team, I bet ya we will beat LA and win the finals against ORlando. Tmac been battling injuries since last season. His knee wore out because he kept playing on it and his shoulder was always in pain where he had to inject local to it before each game. But anyways, fact is....TMAC IS STILL OUR BEST AND MOST TALENTED PLAYER ON THE ROCKETS ROSTER RIGHT NOW so stop bashing him every single chance you have.
This is a thread for Tmac. If you don't like this thread, don't even bother commenting on this thread. If you want a Yao or Deke thread for what they done, go make the thread then. But this is a Rare Tmac appreciation thread. So stop using this as an excuse to bash on him saying oh he did this over a year ago so he don't deserve this.
This is a RARE TRACY McGrady appreciation thread just to point out the positive things he did. But it also shows how many people hates on him no matter what it is. This is ridiculous!!! Anything that mentions Tmac and I mean anything, there will always be a handful of people bashing on him no matter what. As soon as those people hear the word TMAC, out come all the bashing. Even if Yao quit on the rockets, he would never be bash as much as Tmac. I just think its not fair. All those years when YAO and Tmac didnt make it out of the first round together, Yao deserves to be bash on just as much as Tmac. During the playoffs, Tmac did way more for this team than Yao ever will. I mean that series against the Mavs and Jazz. Who got bashed on mostly? TMAC did. Everyone was saying oh we should get rid of him and he sucks and this and that. But no one said anything about Yao. Everyone said Yao was doing everything he can but Tmac was holding him back. I mean com'on what the hell is that? It was tmac who average almost 30 ppg. It was yao who couldnt get that last rebound and had Boozer had him for lunch. I mean I hate to bash on Yao but I just feel that if anyone should bash on one of them, I think they might as well bash on the other. yao and Tmac should be praise together or get bashed together. I love Yao to death but I honestly think its Yao who is holding back our organization with his health issues. I read an article one day on ESPN. com and they were talking about yao. They said that the Rockets will never win a championship with Yao playing for them. At first I was furious. But then I came to realized that it was true. But my point is that if you want to bash, bash on them both, not just Tmac.
Knight, I applaud your efforts, but your point will never convincing enough for those three (Tinman, Antisonic, Blake). Even if Tmac comes back, has a breakout season and leads us to a ring, they will find a way to bash him. I've tried in the past, they just arent worth the effort.
can you try to convince somebody without using the words "IF TMAC"? A 'breakout season'? How much are we paying him? how long has he been here? is he a rookie or something? what is a 'breakout season'? when he wins the scoring title and still leads his team to failure? is that breakout? is this bashing Tmac? "The Rockets have not advanced EVER past the first round with Tracy McGrady playing". you know it's called FACT. here's another FACT. Yao Ming has helped the Rockets make it to the 2nd Round. Your turn Tito Jackson, let's see you dance.
mcgrady won more games for us than any other rocket the past decade. he carried us into the playoffs on more than one occasion. he was the reason for the 22 game win streak. 13 points in 33 seconds against the evil Spurs. i love tmac.
Woah Woah let's not get carried away here. Tmac is NOT the reason why we won 22 games in a row. Did his numbers elevate significantly during the 10 games Yao was out? However, Scola's Rafer's and Brooks' did. Don't give credit where it isn't due. By the way, besides Grant Hill and its a stretch to say, has any player come back from a major series of injuries to play as well or better than before? He's not Jesus. He's not "coming back". I know its a Tmac appreciation thread so I won't tarnish its intent by saying what is on my mind.
Back to thread topic: Major props to McGrady for his philanthropic work. However, Yao's charity work is just as comparable to T-mac's without doubt. Only that it is focused on China. I was looking at their 'official' websites, and Yao doesn't really have one dedicated to him; it's in fact dedicated to the Yao Ming Foundation and it only discusses his charity work and the aims of the organization; no praise for Yao on that site. Looking at McGrady's site: It's all about him. There's the 'blog' section and then the Wall on which people can post their goodwill for T-mac. The charity foundation pages are secondary links. It also hasn't been updated since Obama became president...still talks about calling the white house, and asking President Bush to act on Darfur. I don't doubt McGrady's dedication to this charity project but I think he needs to make it more official like Yao. The Yao Ming Foundation already has supporters like Bill White, Greg Oden, Steve Nash, Les Alexander, Baron Davis. T-mac's? No idea (I didn't watch the 3 pts video fully). Hopefully they make the whole foundation more professional and get plenty of supporters.
