That Detroit team won their championship with their starting five and their defensive mindset. Everyone knows that. Mike James wasn't a big part of either of those components. You made my point for me. James was somewhat valuable to that team at that time because he outperformed his paycheck. After bouncing around, he ends up in Toronto of all places so he can start and of course he leads a horrible team in pretty much every statistical category because he dominates the ball and then minnesotta is stupid enough to pay the guy much more than he is worth and the rest is history. Guards like James who shoot more shots per minute than anyone else on the team and play no defense are guys you may have to depend on for scoring in certain situations, but when the time comes to make a decision about their longterm future, you cut them loose because most guards in the NBA can score if given a high volume of shots. I dont like your stephen jackson comparison at all, because sjax has always been more well rounded than Wafer. He defends, he's a good passer, and he can handle the rock.
Was just checking to see if there was any news on Von. From a suns board: http://www.phxsuns.net/showpost.php?p=98285&postcount=628 If everything's copacetic between Von, the team, and RA behind the scenes I have no problem signing him, but not for more than 2mil per year. 3 years 6mil with a team option on the 3rd year. Every team needs an Eddie House.
It wasn't their starting 5, it was their depth. Anytime you can bring corliss,james,campbell, and okur, who btw is a really good center off the bench, how can u dare say it was their 5. Once again, u dismiss billups and jackson. Like I said before, jackson was a headcase also. He was erractic, took bad shots, turned the ball over, but when he was on, he was on. When wafer is on, he is on also. For about what the rockets are wasting on barry and for what they will spend on chase and jt, wafer could perform better. In fact, he has performed better in the nba.
mike james averaged 2.6 ppg 1.1 apg and 1.2 rpg on 40% shooting playing less than 9 minutes a game during the playoffs that year edit: he also only played 26 games in the regular season with DET that year.
Dude that entire detroit starting 5 made the all star team if im not mistaken. Billups, Hamilton, Sheed, Big Ben, and Prince. Their bench was adequate but when the game was on the line those 5 guys were on the court. Again, Jackson is not comparable to wafer. he is much more well rounded. He can actually dribble and pass. He also rebounds and defends. Look at his numbers man the comparison isn't even close.They both kind of look a like I guess but thats about as far as that goes: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3210/career;_ylt=Au978AzvoTa6cXRmseATE18zPKB4 Barry was brought in to play with Yao. He had experience playing with a dominant low post player(Duncan). Without Yao, Barry is useless IMO, but I'm expecting Mcgrady to come back and fill a big hole at the 2, and I think between White and Taylor, one of those guys will be able to contribute off the bench.
What?! Um.. that is still depth! How dare you interject with reason! Leebigez's crusade is above and beyond facts or logic.
From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Wafer) : During a workout with the Phoenix Suns, Wafer reportedly was frustrated by the physical play from Jan Jagla, and responded by laying an intentional elbow to Jagla's nose, then walked off the court and ended the workout at that point
Here is jackson and his first 3 yrs. Most notable is his last yr on that spurs team. Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2000-01 22 NJN NBA 77 40 21.6 3.2 7.4 .425 0.7 2.0 .335 1.3 1.8 .719 0.5 2.2 2.7 1.8 1.1 0.2 1.7 2.2 8.2 2001-02 23 SAS NBA 23 1 9.9 1.5 4.0 .374 0.4 1.6 .250 0.5 0.7 .706 0.1 1.0 1.1 0.5 0.7 0.1 1.0 1.3 3.9 2002-03 24 SAS NBA 80 58 28.2 4.5 10.2 .435 1.2 3.7 .320 1.7 2.3 .760 0.8 2.8 3.6 2.3 1.6 0.4 2.2 2.5 11.8 He played almost 10 more minutes than wafer and shot worse from 3pt range and 2pt range. His asst:to ratio is the same. Granted, jackson is bigger and a better defender, but a knucklehead to say the least. He went to atl the next yr and avg 18ppg. After that he was with indy and since have carved out a very, very good career. He was exactly the same age as wafer and pretty much in the same boat. Jackson came out of high school, but was a prep player and wafer left after his freshman yr. Wafer is a better shooter and jackson is a better defender. Either way, those guys were pushed out right when they turned the corner. The spurs still managed to win titles because manu got better. The rox don't have that same luxury and with yao and tracy out, it would be nice to have a guy that can get 15 pts in a drop of a hat.
I kind of see where you're going with this but I personally don't like the comparison. Wafer has alot of work to do before I put him anywhere near jacksons level. U can't just assume he'll develop on the same path Jackson did. I can already tell u wafer will never come close to 6 assists per game. He doesn't see the court well at all. And I know you're going to throw some stats at me, but Jackson is a better shooter. Period.
The only thing that keeps Wafer successful is his will to prove people wrong, other than that if he loses it, he ain't much of a player. There is a reason why there are no teams rushing to sign him unlike Ariza, or Gortat. I love Wafer's fire, I hope we sign him, but if he is gone, so be it. If he does start for other teams, I expect 15pt average, 2A, 1R, 1Steal, which looks like an imcomplete player. He ain't Ariza.
Here is a cache of his page from Jul 15, 2009 02:30:31 GMT. Supposedly, there is an offer on the table for Chris Wilcox. This is an interesting twist. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...ili&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
C'mon Morey. Von Wafer has proven he can fit well with the team. As well as the rookies are playing in the summer league(Budinger and Jermaine Taylor), they yet have to prove themselves. The most prominent Rockets--McGrady and Yao are both injury prone, so their future is moot at best. Why try to get Andersen when the guy is not rebounder/shot blocker which the rockets need instead? Keep Von Wafer, Luis Scola, Carl Landy, and Aaron Brooks. Don't sign Sergio Lull or Andersen if Von Wafer isn't onboard.
That was 4 years ago......come on people you are all really reaching here, Von may not be signed but it will not be because of some elbow he threw at 19 years of age. Sheesh ! DD
He was a good spark off the bench, but I wasn't too high on his attitude. Everytime the ball got in his hands, you knew it was going towards the basket. He rarely looked to pass (MAYBE as a last resort), his defense was less than mediocre. Then he had that meltdown in the postseason where he threw the bottle complaining over his playing time. Rumor had it he was pissed off after the Rockets used their MLE on Ariza and there was zero chance of him returning. The fact is, the Rockets knew this was coming and they spent almost $5M on acquiring Taylor/Budinger in the draft, hopefully one or both of them can fill in for Wafer's scoring off the bench. But I still don't think this is the worst loss. I am one of those people who is not convinced that he will be a starter in this league. Though, I think he will be a good fit in Phoenix being their spark off the bench backing up GHill/JRich. I hope the best for him, he was a key part of the successful postseason run this past year. But I still think that he is easily replaceable and hope that Budinger and/or Taylor can fill that void.
I wouldn't say it is reaching at all. He has shown us that he is still immature. You cannot deny that the incident 4 years ago and the playoff incident this year show that he still has a long way to go to prove he can keep his head on straight. Aside from that, like several people have pointed out he is a black hole. I believe one of the reasons you didn't like Artest was because he often dominated the ball. Von does the same exact thing, but I think to a greater degree. When Von got the ball, you knew that a majority of the time he was shooting.
We currently have no other player that is ready to bring to the court what Von Wafer brings! Don't let Phoenix sign Von Morey. If Von wanted to play there, the deal would already be done, unless he already signed of course. (I haven't read every page of this thread) Von wants to still play in Houston and will do so for about 2 - 2.5 mil a season for two or three years on a contract. There is no one else for less or more that we can get that will have the same value. I think if anything, Adelman may be the stumbling block if he really doesn't like Von's attitude, which is very probable considering what happened in the playoffs unfortunately. I just think that Von will mature more, just like almost all players and men do as they get older. His clutch shooting and willingness to have the confidence to take a game shoot, explosiveness and drive to succeed will help him to continue to develope into what I believe will be one of the better six men in the league.
