I first thought about the Laker-King Conspriacy and all the package that came with that. But after much review, the game was not that unfair, ESPECIALLY that 4th quarter. All of the Fouls were Worthy of a call, as well as many of some of the calls that were called nothing. The refs did a good job, Botton Line. Watch the game twice, maybe 4 times if you need to. Game 6 4th quarter was equally reffed in all aspects. Either agree with me or just don't say anything. For those who thought all along that it wasnt a conspriacy, props to you, for those that still think its one, WATCH THE GAME AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
I have the proof. Ill watch the game yet again and point out every foul and why it was called and how it was called. For those that don't believe People got too caught up in what the announcers were saying and didnt really follow the game persay. Watch the game with no sound, replay it if you have to. Watch it 3-4 times if w/o sound and finally hear it with sound. Believe me, you'll see what those refs " were smoking" out there for that 4th quarter. peace
UNMKT4, it's baseball season. Shouldn't you be over on the Astros board talking about how great the Yankees are?
This is beyond ridiculous. I can accept that not everyone thinks it was intentional to force a Game 7 -- I don't even think it was. But to go on to say that the game was called fairly is just too much. (You have to cast your net wider than the 4th quarter, btw; the bad calls on Divac and Pollard started in the first quarter.)
I second this post.... Two words for ya.... Kobe Elbow As Homer Simpson would say: "UNMKT4, you're our FBB GM for the Cavaliers, and we like you very much, but [condescendingly] you're living in a world of make-believe! With flowers and bells and leprechauns and magic frogs with funny little hats." Then Bart would say: "Yeah, UMKT4, the Kings got hosed."
I've watched that fourth quarter at least five teams, and I call bull****. Kings up two, three minutes left, Lakers on the ropes. Webber takes a step inside, releases a hook, and hits. Kings should be up two possessions. Nope. Horry clearly flops at the last second (even Bill Walton noted that), and the Lakers go down to tie it the next possession. Huge four point swing in the final minutes. Kings up 94-93, 1:55 left. Kobe goes inside, Webber jumps, makes Kobe double clutch, and Christie blocks him clean from behind. Foul. Lakers take the lead for good. And of course Kobe elbowing Bibby in the chops (well before Bibby grabbed him). Also, how about Pollard's sixth foul for not even touching Shaq? He was just standing there in the lane. Game 6 4th quarter was equally reffed in all aspects. And I thought those almost cheering for Ming to fail were sad... this might be the saddest and most ridiculous statement in the history of internet BBS' worldwide. Even LAKER FANS think it was a complete fix! (Of course, they think that Game 5 was fixed the other way, and that Game 6 was a "make up" game, but if you go over to lakersground.net (their BBS) you'll find that about 9 out of every 10 posters agree that the officials gave them game six.
A perfect example. Before Kobe turns (and his elbow smacks Bibby), Bibby is holding Kobe around the waist. The ball wasn't inbounded yet. If that play is called "by the book," it's a dead-ball foul on Bibby -- which means that Kobe shoots a free throw, and the Lakers then inbound the ball in the frontcourt. The refs let Bibby's initial foul go uncalled in the spirit of "letting them play." The Kings wanted to foul in that situation anyway, since they were trailing, but the refs gave them a chance to steal the inbounds pass first. Then the elbow happens. The refs let it go, because it's not fair to penalize Kobe for their decision not to whistle Bibby. Then the ball is inbounded, and Christie intentionally fouls Kobe to stop the clock. Whining Kings fans have tried to rewrite the play after the fact (denying Bibby held Kobe first, or claiming that the intentional foul by Christie was somehow a further sign of biased refereeing), but it's a justifiable no-call -- as I believe the announcers said at the time, and Rick Majerus said in a column the next morning.
Before Kobe turns (and his elbow smacks Bibby), Bibby is holding Kobe around the waist. No he's not. I've watched this play repeatedly, and it's not even debatable. Bibby is standing to the side/front of Kobe, with his arms spread (not around his waist) to try and block an inbounds pass to Kobe. Kobe becomes frustrated that he can't get the ball, so he elbows Bibby in the chops to get him out of the way. Then Bibby grabs him around the waist since he can't stand up. And regardless of how you feel about the above play, Dick Bavetta taking the Kings last timeout was just ridiculous. Bibby had just taken a violent elbow in the face... and the officials didn't do a thing about it. If you're not going to call a foul, at least have the common decency to give the man a few seconds to recompose himself and physically recover to play the final seconds of the biggest game of his life. Too much for Dick. He makes the Kings use their last timeout, and therefore the Kings have to go the length of the court in the last 10 seconds with no timeout to set up a play.
Cat, I'd say you're lying, but I think you've simply (and perhaps subconsciously) redefined reality to fit your biases. I welcome UNMKT4 to review the tape and give us an, ahem, blow-by-blow description. It'd also be nice if he could tell us, after the Kobe blocked shot you mention, how many seconds it took the refs to call Fisher for a touch/nonexistent foul on Bibby, sending Bibby to the line. Maybe he could also count how many times Fox, Fisher et al. got the ball on the perimeter and then drove when the Kings defender came out to challenge the expected jump shot -- something you claim they never did, but I seem to recall happening fairly often in that 4th quarter (and which IIRC led to a lot of those infamous 27 free throws).
As Rick Fox stated after game 6 "<I>Just because we were more aggresive tonight, makes what we do wrong?</i>."(As in getting to the FT line.) In these type's of games you basically go by your first reaction/first thought about the call and go by that. I'm going to Chroniciloge the game from the beginning of the 4th qrt. Here I go, <U><B>Part 1 first 7 minutes</u></b> 5 pages of notes, big play by big play. Tie game 75-75. Recap: Divac and Pollard both with 4 fouls piece. No laker in any real foul trouble. The very start of the 4th qrt, within 10 seconds of the game Pollard is called for an illegal screen. A little bit of an acting went into this (his head jerked back like a test dummy). Would Fox cause Pollard to do this in such a manner of getting into an accident at over 60 mph? I don't think so. If your feet are not planted flat to the ground, they'll call the call. His feet were shuffling. <B>Good Call. 5 fouls on POLLARD</b> 10 seconds later, Foul on Pollard again, trying to guard Shaq in the post. At first glance by normal viewers it doesn't look clean. Look Again. His hands do go up. <B>Good play</b> But scott should have stayed his ground. Instead we saw Scott Lift his arms up and then(waiting for the impact of the 400 lb.er) takes 2 tiny steps in word, right as Shaq goes up, to where as almost as if he's trying to flop back. The Cameras cut to Vlade laughing on the bench. Why should all the laker haters in this world be mad when you see that Vlade is clearly happy with Scott's two fouls. In the replay, you can't see much body contact, mainly just the ball in mid air. In real time, you can see whats' coming.<B>Pollard has 6. Divac is now In. Shaq makes 2 Ft's</b> <b>Questionable call as a few plays by both teams go by. Peja steps on the sideline. Turnover.</b> Next play: Shaq posts up Divac, scores two. No call, clean play. Next play: Webber passes to Divac as he goes towards the rim. Shaq Blocks the ball. CLean play. That block causes a La fast break. Shaq pass to Hunter. Hunter to George, for the dunk. <B>"Foul by Webber"</b> Good Call. George misses 1 makes 1. <I><B>At this point the ft's are as Follows: SAC 11/16 69% LAL 16-17 94% 10 minute mark in the game</b></i> Next play: 3 second violation call in the lane on Shaq. Questionable yet fair. Divac needed those 2 fouls. Kings fan should be lucky. Divac still with 4. Next play: Webber posting up, behind the back pass to Peja. Foul on George. <B> 9:46 mark in the game 1st FT attempted by the kings this quarter. Peja misses both.</b> 80-77 Lakers 9:40 in the game Next set of plays: Hunter bricks a 3, setting up a fast break where bobby J avoides contact from Kobe and makes a layup. After the Kobe Turnaround shot, (which followed Bobby's lay in) and Bibby's cross up on Hunter, we SEE SHAQ posting up on Divac. Late Whistlte but a foul on Vlade. 5 fouls now on Vlade, and its questionable to many people. Not me though. <B>Look at the floor spreading of the kings.</b> Bibby, Jackson, Divac, and Webber all jon in to get the ball from Shaq. Bibby and Jackson literally leave their man to go for the steal. The contact takes place and Divac's right arm was on Shaq's stomach, his left arm up trying to prevent a score. <B>Good Call</b> After the commerical break, they show a series of replays relating to the fouls called on Shaq. The Divac foul I was just talking about is shown as well as Pollard's fouls. Left arm UP, Right arm on the waist. <B>Good CAMERA angle and a GOOD CALL.</b> The commentators are fueling the fire for all the laker haters and the referee bashing fans. Next call: Shaw misses a layup, causing a Fast break. Bibby goes up for a layup, gets striped by Kobe. Out of Bounds, Kings Ball. In bounds play: Jackson shoots a 18 foot jumper, the rebound goes up (peja is sore and can't get it) kobe gets the ball at mid court, fouled by Jackson. Breakaway foul, 1 Ft and the Ball. Kobe makes 1. Next sequence: Kobe makes a jumper, other end Webber makes a Jumper. 86-83 Lakers 7:00 Shaq posts up Funderburke, spin move over and around around Lawrence, and shoots it off the glass. Good Call. Nothing bad here. 2 Points. Next Laker Possesion: Shaq goes up in the lane trying to post up in Funder, Funder has his two hands pushing Shaq out of the lane with all his might. Lawrence with nothing else left in his tank gets mad at the re'fs call and lifts his hands in the air as if he were guilty of the crime committed. <b> The Penatly is now in effect</b> Shaq at the Ft line, misses 1 makes the next. Next play: Webber passes to Funderburke, he faces up against Shaq, goes toward him. Foul on Shaq. <B><i> Terrific idea by Funderburke."- Bill Walton</b></i> Ball out of bounds, Kings ball. Very Bad call by the refs,<I> actually a no call.</i> Webber posts up on Horry, uses his off arm, knocks horry to the ground, faces the basket, and misses his 1st attempt. No one is around to catch the ball and webber. Webber makes his 2nd attempt. It's the 5 minute mark. Ill report the last 5 minutes in a bit. Ps. I'm a Mets fan. Dont assume what you don't know
Couple of problems I noticed, UNMKT... here's one example: The contact takes place and Divac's right arm was on Shaq's stomach, his left arm up trying to prevent a score. Good Call And I suppose we're supposed to ignore all the times that Horry is on Webber's back, or that Shaq hacks a penetrating guard? You might can make any officiated game in history sound fair if you stick exactly to the rulebook... the point is, the rules are supposed to be the same for both teams. I can find you several examples in the fourth quarter of an identical play from the Lakers defense that was ignored. Anyway, it looks like I'm done with this thread. You know, there's more than one way to look at things. Do you really think Ralph Nader and other public figures who voiced complaints about this only watched it the one time, live? If you do, that's a little short-sighted. However, it's apparent that if I disagree with the notion that every game was called fairly, I'm going to get a signature dedicated to bashing me and my views. If y'all ever want to talk basketball, just let me know, and I'll talk. I'll be happy to give some PBP too from that quarter. But it's obvious I'm not going to be allowed to disagree or agree with anything without a personal attack from gettinbranded, so screw it. It's great talking hoops, even when we disagree all the time, but it's not worth it to have to deal with this ****. With or without the officials help, the Lakers won. It's over and done with. What the hell is the point in trying to prove or disprove some conspiracy? It may have been interesting to talk about for the first week afterwards, but we're not going to change each other's opinions and we're not going to change the officiating. It's been almost three weeks... can we try to talk about something else in this forum? I still post in these threads because IMO there are a lot of incorrect judgments, but I'd really, really like for us to talk about something else for a change...
I have many answers to those questions . But first I have some thoughts. What I think,"the Cat", is you see what <B>you</b> want to see, regardless of the reality of your thoughts. <B>What <B>I</b> do is I merely state the facts that the televison presents me with me. Botton Line</b> Did you really watch that game five times? Five TIMES? That's amazing seriously. <I> At least We have one think in Common. We're both spurs fans</I> Onto <B><u>Part 2, Last 5 minutes<I>(actually 4:41)</i></u></b> This is where things get interesting. Next play: Good Passing by the kings. Webber gets below the basket, passes off to Divac. He then goes for a lyup. ANd 1 for Divac. Shaq Foul. 3 point play possibility. Game Tied at 89. Divac's FT is good. 89-90 Kings lead. 4:30 mark Next play: Shaq goes inside the paint with a backside move. Divac and Webber come to stop the fast action Shaq from making yet another nice inside move. <B> Orginially thought to be Divac's 5th. It was called a Webber foul. Only in the replay could you see Webber's hand hitting Shaq's Head. Good Call. Misses 1st Ft, makes 2nd.</B> 4:00 mark Next play: Bibby crosses a few players, misses the reverse layup. Divac misses the put back. <B>The sequence continues as Kobe at the 18 foot mark, by the semi-circle, does a spin move, another post up type move, goes to shoot it when he's striped by Doug. Doug passes out to Bibby, avoides the contact with Fisher, for the layup.</b> Next play: As the court is spread out, for the entrance pass to Shaq, The kings are playing great defense with this spread defense. Kobe passes around the 3pt. line, passes to Fisher, Fisher to Fox. (7 sec. on the clock), Fox back to Fisher. Fisher inside to Shaq. Shaq gets good inside position and goes to dunk. Vlade blocks it from behind.<B> Sort of a questionable but a GOOD call.</b> Jump Ball Next play: As the Kings win the tip off, Bibby goes into Webber for the post up. (Some call this a Horry flop, But I see it differently) Webber is so fast in lowering his shoulder, he fools many but not the most important ones in the court<B>THE REFS.</b> LEFT ARM LEFT SHOULDER. HE LOWERED it. PUSHED off. good call It seems as if the world is crumbling down on the Kings and the laker haters', but the kings are surprisenly Up. 92-90 Kings. 3 minutes remain. Next play: Fox goes to the grounf as he loses the ball, Dviac dives for the ball as well. Literally jumping ontop of Fox and Horry. <B>Over the back/shoulder foul on Divac. 6th foul. He's out of the game.</b> <B>The Agressor <I>(Lakers)</i> get advantage's like these types of calls in these situation's. It has nothing to do with a "game 7"</B> <B> At this point before Horry's Ft's the FT situation is as follows:</B> SAC 12/19 63% LAL 20/24 83% Horry hits both Ft's. Next play: 7 seconds on the shot clock, Bibby at the top of the 3 pt. line, goes to his right side, reach in foul on Kobe.Kobe is aliiiiiiitle ticked off. Nex play: As Webber misses his turnaround hook shot. the lakers are breaking down the court. Funderburke is in the game and trying to contain Shaq from any touches inside the purple paint. Funderburke reaches around Shaq for the inlet pass and touches him on the arm. Foul on Funderburke. Another Stat pops up on the screen: <B>SAC 1/3 LAL 9/13</b> Shaq misses his 1st, miakes his second. Next play: Funderburke drives in for a dunk from a nice pass by bibby. Everyone wanted a flagrant. Only a 2 shot foul was called. Shaq cleary had some body contact and he popped the ball from Funderburke's grasp. He makes the two Ft's. 94-93 Kings lead. 2:05 to go. <B>Next we come to Webbers block/Christie's body contact foul on Kobe. CLean block on Webber. The foudl was called on Doug. Kobe does provoke the foul by jumping into Doug, but when two guys are coming at you strong (in this case, it was Chris and Doug coming towards Kobe), in a elimination type game, the offensive player always will get the call</B> Kobe makes both Ft's. 1:45 to go. Next play: Missed shot by Turkoglu. Fox has the position for the high bouncing rebound. Gets run over by Funderburke(accidental contact). Foul on Funderburke. <b>Bill Walton states that Lawrence's momentum ran in a already staiondary player with possession of the ball.</B> What can you do in this situation? Not a damn thing, good call. Fox makes both Ft's Next play: Bibby is fouled on a baseline jumper by Fisher. Good call. Bibby makes both Ft's. 1:20 to go 97-96 Lakers Next play: Turkoglu is called for a reach in foul on fox. Hedo swippes at the ball exctienly and gets called for a foul. This is a cutch game , you can't be picking for a ball like that. He clearly hits Fox in the back with his left arm, while fox was going to the rim. Fox makes both Ft's. Another stat pops up: <B> Ft's this game SAC 16/23 70% LAL 28/33 85%</B> 50 some odd seconds left in the game when Webber has Shaq guarded down low. A beatiful drop step takes back on Webber, and Shaq finishes with the finesse reverse layup. 45 seconds left. Bibby looks for the foul as he shoots up a high arcing lay in but gets no love form the refs. Good no call. Down the court Shaq posts up Webber, Shaq misses a baby hook. At the other end, Fox gets called for a foul on Hedo. Hedo at the line and makes both Ft's. <I><B> Unforunately at this point at the 19.8 second mark, There is a Commerical. NBA TV cuts to a commerical but never goes back to the game. Instead i get highlights from previous all star games anddunk contest. 30 minutes later , game 7 starts. I know what happened but I cant give you my analysis.
