Do you guys really think the Rockets gave Cato his contract based on pre-season? It may have played a small part, but I think they knew what they were getting already. Big men don't come cheap and the Rockets needed a big man under contract for years to come. I think it's as simple as that. ------------------
Dr. of Dunk: Yeah, that's a good point about extrapolating stats over 35 minutes. I just did it to make it easier to compare these guys' productions to other players in the league. In fact, if you extrapolate Scott Pollard's stats over 35 minutes, you get similar numbers to Brad Miller, and Pollard does not look like starters material in Sacramento. I have heard good things about Brad Miller and Jahidi White however. I think I heard it mentioned on this board that Miller was one of the non-NBA scrubs who played for Rudy T on the national team during the lock-out and Rudy really liked him. Jahidi White has beaten out Ike Austin (speaking of overpaid big men) for the starting position in Washington and has been dubbed Baby Shaq by some people (which is like calling Kenny Thomas the next Barkley, completely ridiculous, but anyway). The one thing these stats really point out to me is just what a slouch Cato is on the offensive boards compared to other big men around the league. The guy has no offensive game, so why can't he use his supposed limitless athleticism and 6'11 size to get us some second-chance opportunities. Those are huge in big games as was made abundantly clear watching the much-made-fun-of overpaid Ostertag get those offensive boards time and time again for Utah in their series against Seattle. If Ostertag can do it, why can't Cato? ------------------
I asked this question in another thread but since it wasn't answered it's worth repeating: We have Cato's Bird rights, do we not? If so, how much of his salaray counts on our cap? ------------------
"He got that contract because he played some of the best inspired shot-blocking action I've ever seen in the preseason." Uh,Huh. And that means exactly what? He plays a great game of practice or "non scheduled" games? He likes to play without pressure? He doesn't like to play a whole season? He is a slug who can't see that when someone puts faith in your game and makes plays for you, you actually have to show up to the game. Trade this sorry piece of s**t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, for all this going on and on about Cato's amazing athleticism for a guy his size, can someone help me out on why he was drafted so late the year he came out. I mean Kandi man got the number one pick when he was completely unpolished, and the consensus appears to be that Cato is more athletic than he is. Why was this supposed scrub Adonal Foyle taken so far ahead of Cato? They were both shot blockers with no offensive game coming out of school. Wouldn't a team recognize all this talent Cato has and draft him ahead of Foyle? Makes me wonder if Cato's athletic gifts might be a little overrated. No doubt he can jump high and run the court well, but there's got to be some other stuff that's lacking. Besides, athleticism is great, but when it doesn't amount to production on the court, it doesn't deserve $6 million a year. ------------------
Nolen, Every penny of salary ALWAYS counts towards your team total salary. To think otherwise will make your head hurt. Exceptions are only about how many pennies you are allowed to spend over the cap. But they still always count as salary.
Ratliff is Cato less thirty pounds. When did centers start weighing 225? The center position appears to really be changing with players as skinny as Ratliff and Camby playing the 5 spot. I bet Shaq nearly breaks them in two whenever their respective teams play the Lakers. It's a good thing they're in the East. I don't know what Ratliff's game was like a couple years ago, but from what I've seen he looks much more competent on offense than Cato has even shown the potential to become. Cato just looks downright awkward on offense, kind of like Mutombo. He just doesn't seem to have a ton of coordination (of course I'm used to watching Hakeem). I hope Cato gets that consistent fifteen foot jumper I've heard mentioned on the board, though. If he got that and gained some consistency with his D and rebounding, he'd make the center position a strength for the team. On the rebounding note too, his lack of offensive boardwork just seems like lack of effort on his part. He's got the size and the hops, but not the heart it seems. That said, I'm still not necessarily in the ship Cato out ASAP camp yet. I just think it's interesting to see if there are guys out there available who could possibly fill his void if Cato was dealt as has been speculated. It seems that there may be some candidates out there. ------------------
Cato's D is so overrated. Cato can simple and completely disappear in games, especially on the defensive side. He really has no fundamental understanding of defensive positioning and conservation of movement. That is the most disappointing part of him. To me, his offense is fine. It will improve incrementally. It is his defense that we are wasting money on. If he cannot learn to play smart, and command the lane, he should be traded before other teams learn about him. I'm willing to give him until next February. But, that's it. achebe, tell us again what the definitions of Cato'ed and Ostertagged are.
Can I laugh my ass of at all of you if Cato does get his game going? Anyway to you heypartner, I was told Cato had some offense in College but I never saw it. Hakeem had none coming into college. Maybe in college they weren't all that worried about Kelvin. Anyway we can argue the point back and fourth but my opinion is that if he gets the same treatment Hakeem did then he will do us proud ------------------ Walt the Wizard Williams. "The aging Terrapin from Maryland"
I'm with you...if Cato steps it up like Hakeem, I'll be laughing at my ass right there with you Carlos. But still, his defense sucks, and Dream's never did. He should just try to play D like Dream, and I'd be way-thrilled with that. That has an easier chance of happening than Cato starting to command double teams...lol. Some factoids: Cato was 3rd leading scorer on his senior team (11ppg). Dream's offense was always better. I was at Rice Dream's first year, Dream could always slam with the best of them, which is barely all Cato can do now. It took him one year to learn a shot. By his senior year, he was clearly the best player in college. Cato is not that good...But Crisco says he's 7 feet tall.
Well, this thread has probably run its course, but I came across something that might be relevant. In looking for guys who might make good replacements for Cato, I extrapolated a lot of stats over 35 minutes (which Dr of Dunk wisely pointed out is not always real accurate). Of course, I didn't think any of the players' productions would stay at the exact level in a starters role that they were at when they were playing fewer minutes, but I thought it was a good way to compare the players' productions. Anyway, I decided to extrapolate Cato's two seasons at Portland when he hardly played and see how they stacked up. Here they are: Cato played 13.6 minutes a game for Portland in '98. Here are his 35 minute stats: 3.35 BPG, 8.75 rebounds, 2.83 offensive He played 12.7 minutes in '99: 2.89 BPG, 13.23 rebounds, 4.96 offensive Obviously, stats get weird when you extrapolate. Cato's '98 and '99 seasons look pretty good in comparison to these other guys. Still, I think these stat comparisons show that Cato slacked big time this season and there are a few guys out there who could probably step in and meet his level of production THIS season. However, I, like everyone, hold out hope that he develops more this season and gets determined on the offensive boards again. If not, I hope Rudy T gets the sense to trade him for something decent and replace him with somebody who can do his job for less pay with more heart, like a Brad Miller or a Jahidi White. ------------------ [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited May 08, 2000).]
Oh yeah, I'll go ahead and add four guys to the list of big men FAs out there who we might want to pick up. Don't want to bother extrapolating stats at the present time. The four guys are: 6'10 250 lb. three point shooting 33 yr. old veteran Terry Mills from Detroit Philly third string center 7' 280 lb. Todd MacCullough two big guys Denver supposedly likes: 6'10 244 lb. Corey Blount from Phoenix 6'11 265 lb. Scott Pollard from Sacramento You may have seen Blount and Pollard (has a fairly big role off of the Kings' bench) making cameo appearances hacking Shaq this postseason, but they wouldn't be that bad as backups to take some minutes from Cato if he keeps slacking. Denver is also interested in Brad Miller, who I like and have already discussed. Mills started most of Detroit's games and actually shoots the three about as well as Bullard at least that's what the numbers say. That's not bad for a guy with his beef. He'd strictly be a backup though. Any of these guys would probably be an improvement over Pig just 'cuz they have more of a center's size. Pig has performed admirably though, so they may not be alot better. I'm just throwing out names I've seen good things written about. ------------------ [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited May 08, 2000).] [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited May 08, 2000).]
Cato and Ratliff's numbers are very similar at the same stage in their careers. I think the comparison is quite reasonable. Now whether Cato will improve over the next 2-3 years as Ratliff did and be then what Ratliff is now is the real question. Foyle isn't really 6' 10". He really is between 6' 8" and 6' 9"-which is why they say he is undersized. Foyle has terrible hand eye cordination--which isn't a good thing for basketball, but he is a good team guy, smart player, and has a good work ethic. He is a decent option for us, though he would not be one of my top targets for a 2.5 mid-class exemption. If we can't get a player like the 4 below I would really pursue Foyle though, especially for like a 1 mil per year contract. Pollard, White, Miller and MacCoullach all have greater potential as a center or player than Foyle, and I would certainly look to sign them first with a middle class exmeption. White is the shortest, but strongest. He does look like a man among boys out there, and I was impressed with what he can do. Pollard might be the most athletic of them and has a nice all around game, he is an oustanding back-up center to have. In Pollard I don't think you have a player who will ever be of starting caliber though. Miller works hard, but has back-up written all over him like Pollard. Pollard seems to have a little more quickness, Miller a little more offensive game to him. MacCoullach is the least far along but is a legit 7 footer with 280 lbs to go on him (I would say him and White have the most starter potential). But as Phily has many decent veteran big bodies--Ratliff, Geiger, Hill--it is a little hard to see where is game is at, but he supposedly did pretty well when Geiger was out due to injury. Oh, I don't like Blount as much as these other guys because he is older with zero potential to get better. Mills is old too, and is worse defender than Eddie Johnson is right now. I want no part of Terry Mills. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited May 08, 2000).]
No need for this kind of talk. Cato is the Center we've been looking for. He fits our new style. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
PSJ, I still believe we should be patient with Cato, and believe he could be the equivalent player to Ratliff or say Camby. But even if this happens we will need more height and offensive skill in the 4/5 positions. You need at least 2 decent 6' 10" + guys, ideally 3 that can play. Thus I think in addition to Cato (or another shot-blocking 4 or 5), we need other more bog bodies that can play. I would title the thread "Big Bodies to replace or compliment Cato". ------------------
Dude, Cato's body fits our style, his ability doesn't, and his heart doesn't. There have been enough Cato bashing posts on this board (including quite a few by myself), so I'm not going to elaborate... just go read a few, and you'll see the perspective, even if you don't agree. ------------------ [This message has been edited by haven (edited May 08, 2000).]
sir scarv, thanks for the info on these guys. I agree with just about everything you said. I had never really seen Brad Miller play. He sounds like a good backup. White I think could start if we chose to ship out Cato, and he's the guy I would like to get the most, but I doubt he would come here as a backup since he was a starter over Austin in Washington. I've not been impressed with what I've seen of Blount. Hakeem abused him for a minutes this season, and Blount looked pretty bad. I guess I like Mills just cuz he shoots that three, but if he can't defend, forget him I guess. McCullough sounds pretty good. The Rockets had a chance to pick him up in last year's draft though, and picked up Tyronne Washington instead. I wonder if Tyronne could ever fit into the Rockets' plans. Foyle sure gets a ton of blocks for 6'8. He might be good for $1 mil or something. It seems like there are some guys out there who could help out our frontcourt. Considering it was a real weak spot, the Rockets might bring one of them in. ------------------
Now I don't remember who said Cato has bad hands but that was very wrong. Cato not only has good hands but he is a strong finisher....may not mean anything but have a look at these replays. http://www.nba.com/theater/video/francis_pass_030700.avi http://www.nba.com/theater/video/cato_oop_030200.avi http://www.nba.com/theater/video/cato_k_dunk040100.avi You can also save these on your hard drive. ------------------ Walt the Wizard Williams. "The aging Terrapin from Maryland"
Now I don't remember who said Cato has bad hands but that was very wrong. Cato not only has good hands but he is a strong finisher....may not mean anything but have a look at these replays. http://www.nba.com/theater/video/francis_pass_030700.avi http://www.nba.com/theater/video/cato_oop_030200.avi http://www.nba.com/theater/video/cato_k_dunk_040100.avi You can also save these on your hard drive. ------------------ Walt the Wizard Williams. "The aging Terrapin from Maryland"
