Quit talking down on Stevie and Cat, cuz without them the rockets will fall flat.

All the people who talk about trading Mobley never mention what we can get back for him. We can't get equal talent back because he makes way less than players of comparable stats. Hell, Barry makes more than Cuttino. Everybody talks about how he is a good player, but fail to mention his pathetic stats from years before. You want to know why Barry averaged 5 assists and Mobley only 2.5? It's because of the team FG%. The Rockets only hit a pathetic .428% of their shots while Seattle shot .469%. To get an assist, the player you pass the ball to has to MAKE the shot as well. Passing the ball more doesn't magically give you assists if your teammates aren't knocking down shots. For Mobley to get more assists, he'd have to pass to Steve and Moochie more, but then people would b**** about him excluding everybody else and only helping his friends. Think about the guys beside Mobley who can score on this team. Steve, Mooch, and KT. Steve and Mooch are PG and distribute instead of getting distributed to, not to mention they create their own shots. That leaves KT. KT can't hit open Jumpers to save his life, but you don't really want him taking open jumpers because he's better at taking it to the hole. Don't just look at the stats and say Mobley doesn't pass. I saw Mobley pass plenty of times. . . to the Wiz and Rice while they were wide open on the 3 pt line, and they always bricked those shots off the back of the rim.

 

Cat -u are right Francis doesn't play defense either, so on that point I'll give you they both suck, which doesn't make Mobley any better. The biggest problem I have with Cuttino is he does NOT pass the ball enough! Francis averaged 18 shots a game yes HE is our #1 option not Mobley, so he should average more attempts. That said I don't want to trade The Cat this year, because we don't have anybody to replace him. But in 2 or 3 years when we still suck on the defensive side of the ball, we are probably going to have to move either him or Francis. I am not trying to talk down your guy(i.e nickname Cat) but eventually you have to have something resembling perimeter Defense to win a championship.

 

The majority of NBA fans do not watch Mobley for 82 games, we do.


While I agree that Mobley is the better scorer and is better at creating his own shot, scoring is just one aspect of the game. I would rather for Mobley to score less and improve on the other aspects.

Do not get me wrong, I like Mobley's efforts but he seems to concetrate more on the offensive end on the accounts of the other things and the other players.

He tries to take it upon himself to win and show his offensive skills without involving the other players.

I would like to see Mobleys numbers close to Barry's, less scoring a more assets. Barry seems the more efficient player of the two.

----------------MPG FG% 3P% FT% Reb Ast Stl Blk TO Pts
Brent Barry----37.5 .508 .424 .846 5.40 5.3 1.81 .46 2.04 14.4

Cuttino Mobley42.1 .438 .395 .850 4.10 2.5 1.47 .50 2.43 21.7


Difference of 2.8 assets is about 6 pts.& 1.3 Rebs all in 4.6 less minutes.

I hope that Mobley with improving supporing cast will be more of a team player.

 

Assists don't measure the pass that sets up the assists, and they are dependent on team shooting (something Seattle is better at than Houston), so to say that Barry's passing gives him six points more than Cuttino is a flawed argument, unless you're going by something besides assists. You can talk efficiency all you want, but the ability to create is what separates star players from role players, and it separates Mobley from Barry by a huge margin. By comparison, Barry has more assists, rebounds, steals, and a better FG% than Ray Allen and Michael Finley. Neither one of those plays excellent defense to "offset" it. (Finley used to, but doesn't now) Do you think Ray Allen and Michael Finley would be better off playing like Brent Barry?

But in 2 or 3 years when we still suck on the defensive side of the ball, we are probably going to have to move either him or Francis. I am not trying to talk down your guy(i.e nickname Cat) but eventually you have to have something resembling perimeter Defense to win a championship.

Honestly, Mobley is an average defensive player. He's not great, but he's made tremendous strides on the defensive side of the ball in one on one defense. The argument that he and Francis are even on that end is ridiculous. It's a shame that there are no stats for one on one defense, because the anti-Cuttino crowd will probably cling to the "no defense" claims unless he won defensive player of the year or something. If there's someone to trade for more "efficiency" and "defense", it would be the turnover prone Steve Francis for a more efficient point guard (Andre Miller?) who can at least play average perimeter defense.

The biggest problem I have with Cuttino is he does NOT pass the ball enough! Francis averaged 18 shots a game yes HE is our #1 option not Mobley, so he should average more attempts.

However, Francis was injured for a good portion of this season, and Mobley had to take more shots in games where Steve was out. Furthermore, since Mobley actually averaged more points per game than Francis on approximately the same number of shots, why is Steve the definite top option? Francis may be a better all around offensive player, but when it comes to scoring offense, they're basically options 1 and 1A.

Look at some other shooting guards that scored a similar amount of points to Cuttino:

Ray Allen: 3.9 asst
Michael Finley: 3.3 asst
Allan Houston: 2.5 asst
Wally Szczerbiak: 3.1 asst
Bonzi Wells: 2.8 asst

Houston, Wells, and Szczerbiak are right at Mobley's level in assists per game, and Finley and Allen are about one assist more per game. One entire assist. Incredible! And that doesn't even factor in the pass that sets up the assist, or the team shooting, which is better on Dallas and Milwaukee than Houston. (In fact, those two have the best shooters in the whole league from a talent perspective) The "no pass" sentiment regarding Mobley really doesn't hold water, unless you think approximately one assist (not even the best measuring stick for passing) is the difference between a selfish ballhog and a team player and star.

 

Cat it really doesn't matter what u or I or anyone else thinks about the 2, if one of them is traded it will be Mobley for 2 reasons right off the top of my head:

1. Steve will get the Max next year and will be hard
to trade, and is basically who we are going to
build our team around.

2. Steve is the type of guy who makes other guys
better with his passing skills. Now u can argue
he is supposed to do that as a pg, and u are
right, but how many pg's actually do it? Not
many.

As for your argument that Da Cat took more shots because Francis was hurt, that makes sense, and I will admit I didn't take that into consideration. But make no mistake Steve is our #1 guy, just ask RT or CD, and I am pretty sure u will get the same response. I do have a question for u though: do u think that given the fact that
A. Hopefully we will be healthy (ie M.taylor and Steve)
B. We will in all likely hood draft Yao
C. Get a SF like Odom or Lewis
All those things happen do u think the Cat will tone down his attempts to maybe 10-15 and choose his shots more wisely? I would just about bet money he doesn't. I guess on this we will just have to agree to disagree.
But we both love our Rockets and that is what this board is all about!

 

Doesn't Steve have the worst assist/TO ratio out of all the starting point guards in the league? It's hard to make the argument at this point, IMO, that he's making his teammates better with his passing. Also, there's no real reason to trade one of the two, unless you're dreamcasting. Like I said, Mobley is an average one on one defender now, and it would be pretty easy to trade Francis for another max PG with less scoring but more efficiency and defense, if you wanted to go that route. It's not hard to trade for players making 9 mil per season. It's not like Steve will have a KG like contract. Personally, I don't think the Rockets would ever trade either one of them, but if they decide that the problems are efficiency and defense I can guarantee you Cuttino has advantages over Steve in those categories.

There's no sound basis either for thinking that Cat won't limit his shot attempts to accomodate more scoring options. In Cat's three high scoring seasons in the NBA, he and Steve have never had much help on the offensive side of the ball like a Ming and Lewis would be. He and Steve were clearly the top scoring options on the team, and for the Rockets to be successful they both needed to shoot about 18 times a game. There's no real evidence to support thinking that he won't limit his shot attempts with more weapons, other than you just not liking the guy. That's fine; we all have our preferences, but looking at the evidence there's almost as much of a chance of Steve having that problem as there is Cuttino.

 

Once again,
I think that Mobley is a decent player but he is not great on defense and far from being a complete player. I'm not saying he will never become a complete player but he has a long way to go.

I could definitely seem him being a problem next year if Yao takes some of his attention away.

 

Forget stats., forget athleticism, forget skills; what drives many of us crazy about Cat and Steve is that they have so much talent, so much potential, and they are sooooooo IMMATURE!!! It is a head thing with both of them. It is all mental; remember their embarassing performance at the All Star dunk competition, that was a "snapshot" of their careers so far, after all the flash and splash, when the smoke clears, they generally come up empty. Will they change, improve, get control, grow up? One more year like last year, and they will likely be doing what they do somewhere else.

 

Give them a decent front court and see if their selfish problems don't dry up.

I think with good frontcourt players, they will change their games.

At least I am hoping they do.

DaDakota

 

Rockets did fall flat with them except they gave Rockets the chance to take #1 draft.

 

Mobley is not a top 5 SG in de league, but he sure takes as many shots as any top5 SGs. ya, everything is about STATS (not in FG%, but PPG)

 

How do you judge Maturity? These guys play a kids game for a living, so seeing them having fun, is that immature? How does the dunk contest figure into the equation? I think most people here agree there's no way Francis could have won a contest where he has to do dunks that only 6'6" and up guys can complete. I can't believe how many people think we can just pick Ming and get rid of an allstar and the 12th best scorer in the league for role players and win a championship. You guys havn't even seen Ming play a single minute of NBA ball and Steve and Cat are already expendable in your minds. Every champion in the 90's and this new decade has relied on 2 very good players to win. The Bulls with Jordan and Pip, the Rockets with Dream and Clyde, the spurs with Duncan and Robinson, and The Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. The only team without a dynamic duo was the 94 Rockets, but that was all Dream and by no means is Ming ever gonna be anywhere near as good a player as Hakeem. When is the nitpicking of these two guys gonna stop. Every time these guys play they always give everything they have and then some. They've both played through injuries and health problems regardless of the fact the playoffs were out of the picture, yet still they get picked on for not being perfect. I think if you are gonna be a person that constantly b****es about what these guys can't do, well then maybe you should suit up, go down to Westside, and show them yourselves. You guys know so much about basketball, maybe while your down there you can try and get signed too. Maybe we can trade Steve and Cuttino for their haters on this board. I'm sure they would be much more fun to talk to.

 

Don't forget, also sooooooo YOUNG!!!

Jeez, gimme a break. It was only Steve's third year, and an injury plagued one on top of that for crissakes! Steve will continue to improve once healthy, and Cat has gotten measureably better every season.

Now, judging Steve and Cat by the dunk contest, is, IMHO, ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS !!! If you're judging Steve and Cuttino's abilities and potential as NBA players by the fact that Steve couldn't imitate a dunk that he was PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE OF PERFORMING , then I think you have a misunderstanding of what it is that makes successful NBA players. I feel I shouldn't even have to respond to such an inane comment, but I thought I should clarify that basketball-palming ability does not an NBA superstar make!

 

Maturity is: The balance that Kobe has achieved in the past few years.
The aggressiveness to get shots, but the patience to know when to get them.

Cat and Steve are not there yet, but I have seen them get better at it each year. To expect to improve without one or the other would be a case of tearing down the foundation while trying to build up, in our case literally, as we draft and develop a frontcourt.

 

Hmm... I did some research to check out that "fact"... here's what I found:

Kobe - 19.96
Vince - 21.78
McGrady - 20.87
Iverson - 27.82
Pierce - 19.49

Those are probably the five top shooting guards in the league, and they all shoot more than Cuttino. And Cuttino's field goal percentage over the last 45-50 games (more than a hot stretch) where he had recovered from the early season ankle injury was right at 46%, or about the average of most elite SG's.

 

You Cuttino bashers have got to be kidding me... The Cat is absoutely right.

First off, some idiot mentions that Brent Barry is just as good as Cat. What a joke.. you think Cuttino's defense is bad? Barry got BENCHED for Randy Livingston (a CBA player now at best) in the playoffs, because he can't play D and also seemed nervous for the entire series. Yeah, Barry is a good passer... but remember that this guy can play PG, and also remember that when he makes passes to the wing, he is making them to guys like Rashard Lewis and Vladamir Radmanovic (some of the best 3 point shooters in the league), not Walt Williams, Glen Rice, or Terrence Morris.

If Mobley was surrounded by top-notch 3 point shooters, he could easily average 3.5-4 APG. Mobley is almost UNGUARDABLE, unlike Barry. If the Rockets could arm themselves with top notch outside shooters, that would really take the pressure off Cat and lower his FGA and increase his FG %, as well as assists.

Right now I'd compare Cat to someone like Michael Finley, but with perhaps a slightly better driving game. Guys who can create their own shot are INVALUABLE in the NBA, though. You'dhave to be crazy to get rid of him.

 

i would just like to point out that while i mentioned earlier that i liked brent barry, i did not agree to him being better than mobley.
that being said, i also liked matt bullard, matt maloney, and a whole bunch of other 3 point shooters. swish baby.
i didn't realize i had alligned myself with the trade-mobes mob.

but continue with the pounding of 'stats' and 'facts'.
its very 'informative' and 'entertaining', even 'cool'. y'all must be 'professionals'.



though i might get the stats and facts laid out on me, i nevertheless need to voice out that i do not share the popular opinion of that mobley is finley with a better driving game.

 

It's really hard to judge Mobley in the offense he's in now. Should be interesting to see how Francis/Mobley adapt to Ming in the middle. Making Ming become nothing more than a defensive presence is asinine.

 

You are some stupid idiot yourself. No one on this thread has stated that Barry is as good as Mobley. There was a discussion comparing the stats of both players and I mentioned how more efficient and more of a team player was Barry compared to Mobley.

By the way, Mobley the year before last, he was surrounded by Mo Taylor, Olajawon, Bullard, Williams & Steive and could not average more than 2.5 asst he average last year. Yes, Bullard and Williams are sharp shooting 3 ptrs.

Do not be blindly supporting Mobley. If you are a real Rocket fan, state his weaknesses and things that he can improve on.

We are not Mobley haters. We are are simply Rockets fans who got sick of the isolation plays for Mobley and want him to be a team player. He and Steve need to involve the whole team and make them better and until they do that , they are going nowhere.

 

We are not Mobley haters. We are are simply Rockets fans who got sick of the isolation plays for Mobley and want him to be a team player. He and Steve need to involve the whole team and make them better and until they do that , they are going nowhere.

i understand where ur comin from compaq center, however i dunno about anyone else on this board but i would much rather give the ball to stevie or cat on an isolation play than have them dish it to cato down low. the truth is cat and stevie are the only one's on this team that can create their own plays. for quick example jus check out the lakers. theyve got shaq and kobe as the only players scoring over 20 points and then they only have one player that averages barely over 10 in Fisher. the lakers are three time champs and the their top players dont even involve the rest of the team as much as cat and stevie so to say they can't go anywhere is pretty dumb.