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Does anyone see the parrallels between Iran and the U.S.?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 13, 2009.

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  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I was stuck by this section of a NY Times article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/world/middleeast/14iran.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

    You could almost change it to:


    The emotional campaign was widely seen as a referendum on Mr. Bush’s divisive policies. It pitted Mr. Obama, who has pledged to move the U.S. away from confrontation with the Muslim world, combat economic stagnation and expand gay’s rights, against Mr. McCain’s economic populism, social conservatism, and hard-line foreign policy.

    Many women, young people, intellectuals and members of the moderate establishment backed Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain drew passionate support from poor rural Americans as well as conservatives.


    I am not saying the conservative right and Islamic fanaticism is the same. Please don't draw that conclusion - I am not. I am just saying I find it amusing that most of America here is hoping for a more moderate Iran, just as most of the world hoped for a more moderate America.

    And that our conservatives support iran's moderates, while Iran's conservatives prefer America's moderates.

    Yet in our home countries, conservatives are ready to demonize their own nation's moderates. Why is that?
     
  2. BobSura

    BobSura Member

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    I see your point but unlike the United States in Iran, the majority do not matter, it is the mullahs that matter. they are kings.
     
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    *cough*2000*cough*Elections*cough*

    Rocket River
     
  4. ymc

    ymc Member

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    our mullahs == supreme court judges? :eek: :confused: :) :cool: :p :eek: ;) :(
     
  5. Ari

    Ari Member

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    The 800 pound guerrilla here that no one choose to acknowledge, I think, is that Ahmedinijad has lots of support in Iran. However, his center of support is outside of the urban areas, which makes up most of Iran. So yes, most Iranians are conservative and support Ahmedinijad personally or the more conservative mullah rule in general. Naturally, most Iranians living in the diaspora refuse to acknowledge it, since the majority of them or their parents were Shah supporters and they fled the country when the Islamists came into power, so don't look for a consensus there. The diaspora population is very much unrepresentative of the general will of the Iranian people, most of whom are poor and conservative Muslims. Iranians in the West are pretty much all former urban elite who provided patronage for the Shah.

    There is a huge disconnect in Iran between the urban educated elite who live in the cities and the rural population that makes up most of Iranians. I learned this over the years from interacting with my Iranian friends, and from taking a class on Iranian history and culture. It is a fascinating country with a very polarized population.

    I wish Mousavi had won, but I really do not think it would have made much of a difference had he won. The establishment, at the end of the day, is still intact and very much in control.

    I doubt there will be a coup.
     
  6. BobSura

    BobSura Member

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    great point, AL Gore should have won. what would the world be like if he did?
     
  7. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Obama was for fiscal growth and McCain was for economic populism? :confused:
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Well, economic populism would be more under Obama's terrain - you are right. In this country....there is the weird notion under the rural poor that they benefit from what benefits corporations and not things like progressive income taxes or minimum wages. It's a strange thing.
     
  9. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    You could say this about every country on the planet. Secular, urban, globalist liberals against religious, nationalist, rural conservatives. Liberty works when they check each other, tyranny works when they don't.

    Except in America we have free speech, which means liberals demonize moderates just as aggressively. It doesn't seem that way now, because when your side is in power, actions speak louder than words. If you're out of power, words are all you have.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I was actually a Bush supporter for his first year in office. The last 7 years...and how the conservatives have behaved have pushed me to be a moderate, and right now I am giving Obama a chance. There's a lot I don't like about the left mind you.

    I have always been socially liberal in the sense I felt the gov't shouldn't get involved in decisions like gay marriage or abortion, but it's part of me being a libertarian.

    Originally being a libertarian, I felt guys like Ron Paul best shared my values. But over the years, as the Bush admin squandered away the budget surplus, and invaded other nation without good cause (Iraq) and pushed through the Patriot Act - I came to the conclusion that the Republican party had become very reckless and infact radicalized by the right-wing elements within it.

    I prefer personal freedom...so much so that despite being an advocate of gun control, I do not wish to take the right away from Americans to have a gun, just that it needs to be regulated in a way to cut down on crime. I think democrats are more likely to yield a balanced budget as demonstrated by the past 4 or 5 administrations. It's democratic presidents that are more fiscally conservative - they balance the budget, not the Republican presidents.

    I think cutting taxes during the 80's was a great thing, and very smart. Reagan was right. But to do it to extremes...which is what Bush did, created a real fiscal mess.

    Anyway, back to the topic on hand. My point is that the radical element of each country fear the radical element of other countries and prefer their more moderate factions....but not within their own country. It's fairly interesting dont you think?
     

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