At this point, without enough information, it would wrong for them to speculate. You say they hardly know anything so they can't rule it out. Technically they can't rule out that it got hit by a space pod carrying a Kryptonian baby. It's best they make educated guesses as they get relevant information.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090603/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane/print Air France jet likely broke apart above ocean By FEDERICO ESCHER and BRADLEY BROOKS, Associated Press Writers FERNANDO DE NORONHA, Brazil – Military planes located new debris from Air France Flight 447 Wednesday while investigators focused on a nightmarish ordeal in which the jetliner broke up over the Atlantic as it flew through a violent storm. Heavy weather delayed until next week the arrival of deep-water submersibles considered key to finding the black box voice and data recorders that will help answer the question of what happened to the airliner, which disappeared Sunday with 228 people on board. But even with the equipment, the lead French investigator questioned whether the recorders would ever be found in such a deep and rugged part of the ocean. As the first Brazilian military ships neared the search area, investigators were relying heavily on the plane's automated messages to help reconstruct what happened to the jet as it flew through towering thunderstorms. They detail a series of failures that end with its systems shutting down, suggesting the plane broke apart in the sky, according to an aviation industry official with knowledge of the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the crash. The pilot sent a manual signal at 11 p.m. local time saying he was flying through an area of "CBs" — black, electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning. Satellite data has shown that towering thunderheads were sending 100 mph (160 kph) updraft winds into the jet's flight path at the time. Ten minutes later, a cascade of problems began: Automatic messages indicate the autopilot had disengaged, a key computer system switched to alternative power, and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged. An alarm sounded indicating the deterioration of flight systems. Three minutes after that, more automatic messages reported the failure of systems to monitor air speed, altitude and direction. Control of the main flight computer and wing spoilers failed as well. The last automatic message, at 11:14 p.m., signaled loss of cabin pressure and complete electrical failure — catastrophic events in a plane that was likely already plunging toward the ocean. "This clearly looks like the story of the airplane coming apart," the airline industry official told The Associated Press. "We just don't know why it did, but that is what the investigation will show." French and Brazilian officials had already announced some of these details, but the more complete chronology was published Wednesday by Brazil's O Estado de S. Paulo newspaper, citing an unidentified Air France source, and confirmed to the AP by the aviation industry source. Air France spokesman Nicolas Petteau referred questions about the messages to the French accident investigation agency, BEA, whose spokesman Martine Del Bono said the agency won't comment. Brazil's Defense Minister Nelson Jobim also declined to comment, saying that the accident "investigation is being done by France; Brazil's only responsibility is to find and pick up the pieces." Other experts agreed that the automatic reports of system failures on the plane strongly suggest it broke up in the air, perhaps due to fierce thunderstorms, turbulence, lightning or a catastrophic combination of events. "These are telling us the story of the crash. They are not explaining what happened to cause the crash," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va. "This is the documentation of the seconds when control was lost and the aircraft started to break up in air." Voss stressed that the messages alone were not enough to understand why the Air France jet went down, noting that the black boxes will have far more information to help determine the cause. One fear — terrorism — was dismissed Wednesday by all three countries involved in the search and recovery effort. France's defense minister and the Pentagon said there were no signs that terrorism was involved, and Jobim said "that possibility hasn't even been considered." A U.S. Navy P-3C Orion surveillance plane, a French AWACS radar plane and two other French military planes joined Brazil's Air Force in trying to spot debris and narrow the search zone. Brazil's Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said debris discovered so far was spread over a wide area, with some 230 kilometers (140 miles) separating pieces of wreckage they have spotted. The floating debris includes a 23-foot (seven-meter) chunk of plane and a 12-mile-long (20-kilometer-long) oil slick, but pilots have spotted no signs of survivors, Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral said. "Oil stains on the water might exclude the possibility of an explosion, because there was no fire," Defense Minister Nelson Jobim told reporters Wednesday. The new debris was discovered about 55 miles (90 kilometers) south of where searchers a day earlier found an airplane seat, a fuel slick, an orange life vest and pieces of white debris. The original debris was found roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands off Brazil's northern coast, an area where the ocean floor drops as low as 22,950 feet (7,000 meters) below sea level. Brazil lacks the equipment needed to reach the ocean floor. If the black boxes are at the bottom of the sea, their recovery will have to wait for the arrival early next week of a French research ship with remotely controlled submersibles that can explore as deeply as 19,600 feet (6,000 meters). The sturdy black boxes — voice and data recorders — are built to give off signals for at least 30 days, even underwater, and could keep their contents indefinitely. But the head of France's accident investigation agency, Paul-Louis Arslanian, said in Paris that he is "not optimistic" about recovering the recorders — and that investigators should be prepared to continue the probe without them. "It is not only deep, it is also mountainous," he said. "We might find ourselves blocked at some point by the lack of material elements." Arslanian said investigators didn't have enough information to determine whether the plane broke up in the air or upon impact with the sea, and that in the absence of black box data, they are studying maintenance and other records. "For the moment, there is no sign that would lead us to believe that the aircraft had a problem before it took off," Arslanian said. He said investigators did not know the exact time of the accident or whether the chief pilot was at the controls when the plane went down. Pilots on long-haul flights often take turns at the controls to remain alert. If no survivors are found, it would be the deadliest crash in Air France's history, and the world's worst civil aviation disaster since the November 2001 crash of an American Airlines jetliner in the New York City borough of Queens that killed 265 people.
Just in, apparently the plan was flying way too slow for the conditions and now some bright flash of light reported from pilot near the AF flight. "Spanish newspaper El Mundo said a transatlantic airline pilot reported seeing a bright flash of white light at the same time the Air France flight disappeared. "Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong, intense flash of white light that took a downward, vertical trajectory and disappeared in six seconds," the pilot of an Air Comet flight from Lima to Madrid told his company, the newspaper reported." - Reuters UK
a bit of explanation about what's meant by "too slowly" would be helpful. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L413345.htm -- Air France jet was flying too slowly -report 04 Jun 2009 11:24:17 GMT Source: Reuters PARIS, June 4 (Reuters) - The Air France jet that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean on Monday was flying too slowly ahead of the disaster, Le Monde newspaper said on Thursday, citing sources close to the inquiry. The paper said the manufacturer of the doomed plane, Airbus, was set to issue a recommendation advising companies using the A330 aircraft of optimal speeds during poor weather conditions. Airbus <EAD.PA> declined to comment on the report and the French air accident investigation agency, which has to validate any such recommendations, known as an Aircraft Information Telex, was not immediately available for comment. A Spanish newspaper said a transatlantic airline pilot reported seeing a bright flash of white light at the same time the Air France flight disappeared. "Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong, intense flash of white light that took a downward, vertical trajectory and disappeared in six seconds," the pilot of an Air Comet flight from Lima to Madrid told his company, the El Mundo newspaper reported. "We did not hear any communication on any emergency or air to air frequency either before or after this event." A spokesman for Madrid-based airline Air Comet was not immediately available to confirm the El Mundo article, which cited a report the pilot submitted to his company. The Air France A330-200 was enroute from Rio de Janeiro to Paris when it splintered over the Atlantic four hours into its flight. All 228 people on board died. The plane sent no mayday signals before crashing, only automatic messages showing electrical faults and a loss of pressure shortly after it entered a zone of stormy weather. Portguese newspaper Estado de Sao Paulo, citing a source close to Air France <AIRF.PA>, published what it said was the final sequence of messages, showing how the plane rapidly lost its key flight functions. It said they began at 0210 GMT showing the automatic pilot had been removed. The same minute there were multiple electricity failures. At 0214 GMT a final message was sent showing the planing was plunging towards the sea. There was no confirmation of this from Air France. Search crews flying over the Atlantic have found debris from the jet spread over more than 55 miles (90 km) of ocean, about 685 miles (1,100 km) northeast of Brazil's coast. Brazilian Defence Minister Nelson Jobim has said the existence of large fuel stains in the water likely ruled out an explosion, undercutting speculation about a bomb attack. Experts have speculated that extreme turbulence or decompression during stormy weather might have caused the disaster -- the worst in Air France's 75-year history. (Reporting by Crispian Balmer; additional reporting by Andrew Hay in Madrid)
So now they're saying that NONE of the debris and wreckage they've discovered so far is from AF 447. Unbelievable. So now we know literally nothing outside what a couple automated messages from the plane sent. The only good news here is that our NTSB is becoming involved. They will figure out what happened eventually.
That has to be terrible for families. They need some kind of closure. The officials jumped the gun on this. Hopefully, they'll find something soon.
I don't think they jumped the gun. Finding plane-related debris in the middle of the wide ocean along the flight path of the plane near the area it was in distress, floating in a discernible radius -- it's only logical to think it is the plane. Even now, I have to think this debris is related to the accident somehow.
CNN and Fox News are reporting two bodies along with a seat and a suitcase have been recovered. My only question is were they recovered floating on the surface or at the bottom somewhere?
Classy move by Pietrus http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...ys-tribute-to-Air-France-Fligh?urn=nba,168294
Considering they are in waters over a mile deep, I'm going to venture a guess that it was at the surface. Probably still strapped into the seats which acts as flotation devices.
So I don't get it - if the debris is not from AF447... theeeeeen did they discover debris of a previously undiscovered crash?
they made a mistake identifying the "sea trash" as they called it and moved on to the most recent discovery, verified by the Airline as wreckage from Af447
4 more bodies recovered http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane RECIFE, Brazil – Search ships methodically worked through a "sea of debris" from a doomed Air France jet Sunday, recovering four more bodies near the spot where the Airbus A330 is believed to have gone down a week ago. Six bodies have been retrieved since Saturday and ships were headed to pick up more Sunday afternoon after pilots participating in a grid search reported additional sightings. The bodies have been found in an area about 45 miles (70 kilometers) from where the jet sent out messages signaling electrical failures and loss of cabin pressure. "We're navigating through a sea of debris," Brazilian Navy Capt. Giucemar Tabosa Cardoso said. Brazil's military is not releasing information about bodies or debris that have not been taken aboard ships, after sea trash was mistaken last week for a cargo pallet from the plane, prompting criticism. Flight 447 disappeared and likely broke up in midair in turbulent weather May 31 during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 people aboard — all now presumed dead. The investigation is increasingly focused on whether external instruments on the Airbus A330 may have iced over, confusing speed sensors and leading computers to set the plane's speed too fast or slow — a potentially deadly mistake. The French agency investigating the disaster said airspeed instruments on the plane had not been replaced as the maker had recommended, but cautioned that it was too early to draw conclusions about what role that may have played in the crash. The agency, BEA, said the plane received inconsistent airspeed readings from different instruments as it struggled in a massive thunderstorm. In Brazil, Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz said he could not immediately provide information on how many more bodies were spotted from the air. Cardoso said late Sunday morning that ships should be able to recover some of them within hours despite rainy weather and poor visibility. Brazilian investigators are searching a zone of several hundred square miles (square kilometers) roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands off Brazil's northern coast. None of the bodies recovered Sunday had documents with them to indicate their identities, and authorities said they did not know their gender. The first two bodies, found Saturday, were men. Brazil's navy found three bodies Sunday morning and French helicopter crew later retrieved a fourth body. Christophe Prazuck, a spokesman for the French military, said the fourth body was discovered not far from the other three found Sunday. It was not immediately clear if the most recent body was male or female. Munhoz and Cardoso declined comment on the condition of the recovered bodies, saying the release of that information would be too emotionally painful for relatives. Authorities also announced that searchers spotted two airplane seats and other debris with Air France's logo, and they have recovered jet wing fragments and other plane debris. Munhoz said there is "no more doubt" that the wreckage is from Flight 447. Hundreds of personal items belonging to the passengers have been recovered, but Munhoz said authorities would not immediately identify them because relatives of the victims were devastated by the announcement Saturday that a laptop computer and briefcase containing a plane ticket had been found. "We don't want to cause them more suffering," Munhoz said. The bodies and plane wreckage were being transported by ship and should arrive Monday at the Brazilian islands of Fernando de Noronha, where the military has set up a staging post for the search operation. From there, remains and debris will be taken to the northeastern coastal city of Recife for identification. Air France Flight 447 emitted its last signals roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands. Brazilian authorities have refused since the search began to release precise coordinates where they are looking, except to say the area lies southwest of the last jet transmission and could have indicated the pilot was trying to turn around in mid-flight and head to Fernando de Noronha. Munhoz on Sunday would not say how far apart the bodies had been found, and referred comment to French authorities as to whether the locations of the bodies could help determine whether the plane broke up in the air. The Pentagon has said there are no signs of terrorism. Brazil's defense minister said the possibility was never considered. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner agreed that there is no evidence supporting a "terrorism theory," but said "we cannot discard that for now." Brazilian officials are focusing on the recovery of victims and plane wreckage, not the plane's black box data and voice recorders, which could reveal why the jet crashed. Finding the black boxes is the mission of the French government, with help from the United States. The U.S. Navy is sending two high-tech devices to French ships that will help them locate the boxes, a senior U.S. defense official said Saturday. The Towed Pinger Locators, which can detect emergency beacons to a depth of 20,000 feet (6,100 meters), are being flown to Brazil on Monday with a U.S. Navy team, said the official, who requested anonymity because the decision has not been announced. The team will deliver the locators to two French tugs that will use them to listen for transmissions from the black box, the official said. France has appointed Foreign Ministry official Pierre-Jean Vandoorne to act as ambassador to families of the crash victims, the French prime minister's office said in a statement Sunday.
It either broke up in mid air or else broke up upon hitting the water. I remember seeing a special about the crash of a Swiss Air Plane about 10 years ago off of the coast of Nova Scotia. In it they said that a water crash is always very dangerous especially if the seas are choppy. At high speeds the water is as hard as concrete and hitting chop is like trying to land on a giant cheese grater that can rip a plane apart.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/08/brazil.plane.crash/index.html More bodies found...17 to be exact. I'm glad the authorities are declining to comment on the condition of the bodies and findings of personal items. That would be in poor taste if they did. I don't know if the black box and recorders will ever be found. Maybe with U.S. Navy's help, they will.
