Yea, what I was implying though was that just because he had 2 great reg season teams doesn't mean you can translate them to playoff performances when the sample size gets bigger
I know this doesn't have much to do with the thread...but i liked this article on dwight. Amazing how humble he is, like our own Yao. http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/news/story?id=4161207 Flashback: Dwight Howard By Brian Schmitz ESPN RISE Magazine (Archive) Updated: June 1, 2009, 2:21 PM ET * Comment * / Email * / Print Dwight Howard's HS Coach A secret admirer recently sent Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard a box of flowers shaded in Magic colors. Of course, Howard has a lot of admirers these days -- most of whom aren't secret. But few people were onto him before us. More than five years ago, he first appeared on our cover and then was one of our Class of 2004 picks for "The Future" (along with Candace Parker and Adrian Peterson -- not that we're bragging). Back then, Howard was a Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy (Atlanta, Ga.) senior who we compared to Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. Since becoming the No. 1 pick in the 2004 NBA Draft out of high school, Howard has averaged 17.3 points and 12.6 rebounds. The three-time All-Star has also won two rebounding titles, a blocks title and an Olympic gold medal. But he's remained down to earth through it all, using the lessons in humility he learned in high school. ESPN RISE: What do you remember about being on our cover? Dwight Howard: It was sweet. I remember looking at it and saying, "Man, I'm in high school and I'm on the cover." Our school was so small that once one person saw the cover, the whole school saw it. ESPN RISE: Did teacher give you a break after that? Howard: No! They were tough on me. Very tough. They made sure I did everything the right way. No matter what it was. They made sure I was in school on time and had my uniform on right. I was a role model for all the little kids and they wanted to make sure I was in line. ESPN RISE: When did you first start thinking about the NBA? Howard: I thought about going to the NBA when I was 10. Really -- at 10. I remember the first time somebody said I would be going to the NBA, I was in the eighth grade. I was already playing against some of the high schoolers and I was beating them bad. ESPN RISE: At what point did you decide to make the jump? Howard: Before my senior year. I didn't tell my teammates. I didn't make a big deal about going to the NBA because I didn't want my school or my team just getting attention because I was going to the NBA. [+] Enlarge Jeff Crowe for ESPN.com Shortly before becoming the No. 1 draft pick in 2004, Dwight Howard graced the cover of ESPN RISE Magazine. ESPN RISE: What advice would you give to other players with pro aspirations? Howard: Try to stay grounded. Everybody sees this fantasy world that we live in, but it's tougher than people think. They have this perception of what they think the NBA is like because all they see are the cameras, the lights, the jewelry, the big houses and "MTV Cribs." But the average NBA day is not like that. ESPN RISE: How have you stayed so grounded for so long? Howard: I've had that experience growing up where I thought I had a little success and I was getting attention from the media, from fans, from girls. Then one day all that stuff went away. I broke my leg (before sophomore season) and nobody thought about Dwight Howard after that. So I realized all this can be taken away in one moment so I need to keep myself humble. ESPN RISE: What do you see in your future? Howard: I want my team to win a championship. I want to dominate, keep getting better. I want to be one of the great players. But I really want for the Orlando Magic to win a championship.
Dwight Howard is a perfect example of the type of guys the league needs. Humble, respectful, and concerned about the bigger picture. Doesn't pump his chest, just takes care of business. You can tell he has taken a note or two from Duncan. It's like the guy is a kid stuck in a behemoth's body. You can genuinely tell he is having fun out on the court.
1) did you even watch the series? steve francis was like our tracy mcgrady. he controlled most of the plays, and most of the plays started with him first. he was our main guy offensively during that series. if you want to get technical like you always do (steve also got 40 fts compared to yao 17, and he had a hand in 38 assists to yao's 9). so no, steve was our main guy. when i compare players, i compare them at their best. yao's best playoff performances started from the dallas series (21.4ppg till now). 2) so that's very great of you to judge the knowledge of the posters by their handles. that's actually great logic. good for you. 3) i do agree with you hakeem is better (if you compare their primes), but shaq has FOUR rings, had a better statistical career line, more all-stars, more finals MVPs, more all-nba teams... so a "casual" fan can argue shaq had a better career. oh i know laker fans, they actually "hate" shaq so no, laker fans are in fact very homerish and delusional. ask them when shaq was bringing them 3 straight championships and see what they had to say 4) 40 points, 14 rebound, 4 assists, on 14-21 shooting, dominating on both ends v. the best team in the reg. season v. double AND triple teams? i don't care who he faced. that's an all-time performance. i guess if you're going to dismiss that as playing v. scrubs, i guess you should not even care about the opposition yao and howard are facing b/c most of the centers ARE scrubs. so i guess they aren't good at all then i guess we should dismiss shaq's finals dominance/MVPs b/c he faced rik smits, pathetic nets' frontline... b/c those guys are "scrubs" or average players. i guess we should dismiss some of jordan's finals performances b/c the guys who guarded him were byron russel, majerle (u knows, average players type of guys) . i guess michael jordan would rank his best championship was when he faced drexler b/c drexler was a good opponent see how great it is when we go that route it's an all-time performance in a game 7 v. the best reg. season team. get over it.
and wekko, for you my friend... http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters but i guess they're just "casual" fans to you since the panel includes jim o'brien, jack ramsay, kiki vandegwe.
That's fine and all, but it doesn't justify you excluding a prime Shaq from the list of centers Yao has faced. Especially, when you're talking about the defensive shortcomings Yao's opponents had. You can try to spin it anyway you want, but you're "Yao wasnt the go-to guy" is a pathetic argument. The offense wasn't run through him, but he was at the very least the 2nd option who took almost as many field goal attempts as the first option. Like I said, that's my opinion based on my own experience, and I'm sure is a sentiment shared by many clutchfans. There's a difference between having a better career and being a better player. Olajuwon is clearly more skilled and versatile. That's why some Laker fans believe he's better than Shaq. That's fine. I agree that it was a great game, but its nowhere near the caliber of games Olajuwon put up in the 1995 WCF. So no, I can't say its an all-time performance. Right now though, we're arguing semantics and its pointless. Its arguing for the sake of arguing. They're good, but the caliber of opponents they face must be taken into consideration when you're comparing them to the centers of the past. Its similar to how Wilt's era (with its inferior centers) detracts from his legacy. I think Olajuwon's 2 rings (and the opponents he faced while earning them) are more impressive than Shaq's 4 rings. I don't dismiss Shaq's rings, but I do place less weight on them because they came against inferior competition. You can dismiss them if you'd like, but they did come in an era where the defense was allowed to be more physical....so you'd have to take that into consideration.
so basically, YOU will dismiss every NBA championship for the past 5 years or so till the next century b/c the NBA has definitely gotten softer right and the competition isn't as good as it once was? and we judge a player's career NOT by their accomplishments, but by their "versatility and skill level" . just in case, shaq isn't very skilled. patrick ewing is more skilled than shaq, along with david robinson. just a thought.
It depends on the criteria you're basing your selection on. The panel seems to place a large emphasis on accolades, and on paper, Shaq's resume is more impressive than Olajuwon's. He's had better teams and inferior opponents. So in that regard, the panelists are justified in choosing him over Olajuwon. But like I said, a better career does not translate into being a better player. Personally, I think its incredibly impressive that Olajuwon is #8 all-time in steals and is the only center in the top 35 of that category. The article you linked addresses this simply by saying "a great all-around player".
Nope, I don't dismiss anything, but I do look at it in its proper context. He may not have been more skilled than Ewing or Robinson, but he was more effective at scoring. He was even more effective at scoring than Olajuwon, but I consider Olajuwon to be the better player b/c of what he did on both sides of the ball.
Yao gets abused by today's Shaq. Whether or not he faced a prime shaq for maybe a season doesn't really help plead his case. You could argue that it is due to his physical limitations but even moreso it is his attitude and approach to the game. I can't tell you how pissed I have gotten as he puts his head down after every missed shot. He is one of the only players in the league that loses his confidence that quick. When he is motivated and has full confidence in himself he has proved to be a destructive force.
and so does Howard.... You do know Yao owns the hell out of Dwight Howard don't you? I hope you stay a rookie for life.
Wow, way to showcase your level of intellect, or therefore lack of. Howard doesn't matchup well with Yao. Yao owning him head to head is next to useless especially when he plays in a completely different conference. The game is all about matchups young padwan. The teams that can exploit those matchups and can use them to their advantage are the ones that are truly great. If we face the magic in the finals, ever, yes it is going to be a favorable matchup, but just because player A plays better than player B head doesn't mean that that success translates to other opponents. Dwight isn't Yao's only opponent if you hadn't realized that.
Howard struggles against Perkins, Sheed, Yao, etc...pretty much true centers. Yao struggles against......nobody when he has the ball in his hands. Howard doesn't matchup well with Yao. Who's fault is that? It's not Yao's fault, Howard doesn't have a lick of skill in his game is it?
Yao struggles....against nobody? I'll give you another second to think about it. Are you prepared to make one of the most ignorant statements ever? I guess you forgot about the 07 series in which his slow lateral movement allowed boozer career numbers or how easily Pau Gasol managed to score on him. Noticed how we ACTUALLY beat the Lakers when Bynum was starting...on their own court? Again, this goes back to matchups baby. But to say that Yao struggles against nobody, even when he has the ball in his hands is ludicrous. I realize you are luring to the fronting tactics used against him but even then, like i said, teams didn't front Yao nearly as much under JVG, especially the 07 series where boozer or Okur played him straight up. Yao Ming is the 2nd best center in the league but some posters need to stop treating him like a Hakeem or Jordan type of player. He isn't a 1st option on a team.
Howard needs to learn some better post up moves I agree but tahts the scary part...even without them he is so dominant. Howard doesn't struggle against True Centers, if you mean avging 18ppg on 55%FG is "Struggling" due to the usual monster numbers he puts up then yes, I can see where you are coming from, but even then he is better than any other center.
I'm talking about scoring problems. Who can contain him? Nobody. Fronting is the only thing that slows him down. He isn't a 1st option? Who do you suggest is? Aaron Brooks? Rookie4Lyfe.
Assumption? Did I ever say Aaron Brooks? If you honestly believe Yao is a 1st option I don't know what to say to you. "Fronting is the only thing that slows him down." Yes because he can't catch it then. But you know what else? I can probably hit any open shot on the court, but when someone sticks a hand in my face It slows me down...oh man.
Then who is the 1st option then? Instead of making pointless attacks on me, it would help if you actually contributed. Rookie4Life.
