Actually JVG had a pretty darn great pick and roll that involved Yao and Tmac. It was actually one of our most lethal plays that we had. Alot of it was limited due to Yao's capabilities but it was still very effective.
You were listing the centers that Yao faced and left out Shaq, whose inclusion would've hurt your argument. You may call it "thinking too much", but I call it "being thorough." "Get it?" No offense, but you're on a forum dedicated to the Rockets and you're talking about "casual fans." Generally speaking, clutchfans are not "casual fans". Who cares what the casual fan thinks? Casual fans are ignorant. That's why they're casual. Casual fans believe that the Rockets only won their titles b/c Jordan was playing baseball. Casual fans believe Shaq was better than Olajuwon. If you're basing your arguments on the viewpoint of the casual fan, then you've already lost.
I don't know why only fans cant see this. Its not hate when its the truth. People want to pull up what howard did against those centers. I don't remember yao dominating philly,boston,or cleveland this yr to the tune in which howard did. With the contact that he draws, if he can stay around 71% ft and get that kevin willis jump hook with both hands, he's going to be a 25ppg scorer easy. I bet if hakeem had to pick one right now he would pick howard over yao. I bet dream sees alot of himself in howard.
In fact, Yao did better than this. 2nd game vs BOS, Yao got 26 points with 10/13. Perkins got 0 points and 6 fouls. Second game with CLE, Yao got 28 points with 13/15. Yao totally dominated the game. These games are two of the most exciting games this season. A fan should not forget this so quickly.
1) how would including shaq hurt my argument? yao was not the best player on the team then. he was not the go-to guy. most of our plays didn't involve yao directly then like it is now. if we're going to compare yao's and howard's performances (which is this thread is primarily about), you want to compare them "at their best." 2) so you don't care what casual fans think. but i'm sorry, that's how players are judged. clutchfans don't make up the NBA world. and i'm sure not all clutchfans know every player who guarded every great player in the history of the NBA to judge whether oscar robertson was greater than MJ or not (b/c statistically you can argue, but did you watch his every game???), or whether wilt is the greatest of all time (did you watch his every game to judge???). AND you can argue shaq is better than hakeem. i think hakeem is better, but it's not a clear-cut case. so if someone makes a case for shaq, you're just going to "dismiss" them like you always do with your "win-lose" attitude in regards to a general discussion. but every discussion that involves you turns into that though. and you're not a real fan of the game if you can't even give some respect to howard's dominant performance. that was an all-time performance in that game 7. and yet you haven't given him one single credit.
reg. season is not the playoffs. we should know that from tracy mcgrady's career. great performances in the playoffs can elevate your status, which is what howard's doing. he's turning himself as the best big man in the game right now, and will only cement that if he wins a championship v. the big, bad lakers.
He was responding to a question asked about Yao's performance against Philly/Boston/Cleveland. Obviously, playoff stats against these teams are non-existent.
Yao is not even close to Howard. Dwight has surpassed him in every aspect of the game save shooting the ball. - Dwight is much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line. Yao hits his FT's at a higher rate, but Howard nearly doubles his FT attempts. Dwight is more efficient from the floor, and while Yao has the more refined skill set that could be tougher to guard, the fact remains Yao is easily taken out of the game due to fronting and Dwight is more consistently harder to guard. Not too mention he draws more attention Yao does in terms of double teams from the post. But for reasoning sake, I'll say that's a wash. - He's on another level defensively, he's not a liability on the pick and roll, a much more prolific rebounder and shot-blocker. Yao is a good defender, but he's not on the level of Howards. What people don't realize is that the Magic are also ranked one of the top defensive teams in the league, in fact finished ahead of us in defensive efficiency. And they don't have a Shane Battier, or Ron Artest. They have Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis playing PF. Yao is a better shooter, and likely a more refined offensive player, but with Dwight's growing offensive game, and efficiency with his large edge on defense, gimme him. This isn't even considering durability or injuries where this comparison becomes even wider.
First of all, you were saying that Yao only faced "defensive scrubs". Shaq was far from a defensive scrub. Secondly, although Yao may not have been the "go-to guy", he was still a focal point in our offense. During the 03-04 Rockets/Lakers series, Francis took a total of 70 shots. Yao took 68. Third, That's correct. That's why I discuss basketball on clutchfans. Because the chances are pretty high that there will be knowledgeable people. Obviously, there are a lot of casual fans on here as well (I find any user whose handle alludes to either McGrady or Yao tends to be casual fans). Actually, I do believe I can argue against anyone that Hakeem is better than Shaq. Like I said, its the casual, uninformed fan that thinks Shaq is better. Ever go on the Laker board? There's a large number there who believe Hakeem is better. Like I do with you, I don't dismiss arguments. If I disagree, I logically refute them. There you go again. Dwight did do a great job (are you happy? I gave him credit), but it was against scrub players. Yet you're calling it an "all-time performance". So that means you're placing it on the same pedestal as Hakeem's game 6 performance in the 1995 WCF against the Spurs.
do you even watch the games...or do you just peddle your own bs. He killed cleveland for one thing. if you watched you would know. broke big bens leg remember, philly also. have to check on boston - didn't see those. but you seem to just make **** up a lot of the time to justify your argument
The only problem is that a fan does forget those particular performances because he just doesn't do it in every game consistently. IMO, he's more of a role player than he is a star player to build a team around.
This thread is filled with revisionist history, reactionary analysis, over-exagerations and understatments on both Yao and Dwight. Excuse my french but why do you bleeping care who's better? KG doesn't care that Duncan is considered the best power-forward. Drexler didn't care that Jordan was considered the best guard of the two. It didn't stop them from winning a championship or diminish their talent as championship caliber players. AHHHHHHHHH! Stop it already. Unless of couse you enjoy taking part in this masochistic cycle .
Against those same sorry centers people keep bringing up, here are Yao's numbers. Boston- 17.5ppg,7.5rebs,52%,1blk,2asst,2.5to Cleveland- 23.5,6.5,64%,1blk,.5ast,4.5to Philly- 13.5,7.5,45%,1.5blks,2.5asst,3.5 to So why am i making stuff up? They split cleveland and boston and wre swept by philly. I don't have to knock yao down to prove a poin, but its crazy when people feel they have to regarding howard. Against those teams in the playoffs this yr, here are his numbers. philly-24ppg,15.8rbs,68%fg,2.8blks,1asst,2.6to boston-16.4,17.1,54.9%,2.71blks,1.4asst,2.71to cleveland-25.8,13,65%,1.17blks,2.8asst,2.5to Now seeing its the playoffs and everything is elevated, if yao was playing those teams, how much do you think he would lift his performance from his regular season outing?
It is ok for a fan not to remember every game. But the second game vs CLE should not be forgetten so quickly. We suffered bad calls during the first game, then "SEE YOU IN HOUSTON", and then we kicked CLE's ass hard at home. LBJ got only 1 rebond and 0 assist in that game. If you cannot even remember those games just after the season is over, then what your posts and points based on?
In your previous post, you said you don't remember any games Yao dominated CLE, BOS, and PHI. Can you list Yao's numbers in each of the individual game vs these teams, instead of the average numbers? I agree that DH's performance in playoffs shows he is or going to be a better center than Yao. But you cannot just prove your point by ignoring Yao's good games by only showing the average numbers. Do you think you can fool the people here by playing this stupid trick?
Yao don't need to watch Howard, what he can learned from him? Yapping to his coach? Being a public cry baby? taking stupid technicals? That's not Yao's game, and Yao has more to offer than jumping high...forget about Howard, he's not playing for us, and his is not going to play for us... Forget about Howard seal his man better, forget Howard being the man carrying his team alone... Example Just put Yao in any team that facing Magic this post season, would Howard be a superman in any serious? Geez.... I cheer for Rockets and Yao only
The only thing Yao need to watch for are his darn legs. His game is fine. People need to know this Orlando team is loaded. Put Yao into the current Orlando team and he should reach the final just like D-12. Yao has flaws but so does D-12. Like I said, Yao biggest problem are his freakin fragile legs. If he can rub some magic potion onto them legs of his and dont get injure again he'll be fine.
Yao should be a third option on this team. Plain and simple! Find two main options and Yao is the bailout option. You can't even put him on the high post because his passing is not that great. Some games I think Yao equals turnover. I love him, but i think there are better centers out there. he only averages nine rebounds a game. Pau Gasol and his toilet tissue frame grabs 18 rebounds and gets mad sometimes. Not Yao! Either adjust and dunk on someone or sit down on the bench where all the other nice guys are!
Honestly, you are going to bring two reg season games up vs them? You do realize there is a reason Yao did amazing his first game vs Portland and so crappy the rest right? Teams can adjust to him VERY easily. Howard...not so much. People only kid themselves if they actually believe that the gap between Howard and Yao is even close. Actually the argument ends pretty much due to this for howard. 82 82 82 82 82
I was just responding a post that claims do not remember any games vs CLE, BOS, and PHI Yao dominated. That's it.
