why are those people in china acting like a holes.

China has a "socialist" market economy and is politically socialist/communist.

 

Good post, toughguy. It was the "best" thing for the Chinese army to do to temporarily quiet the rebellion and keep the Communist government in control of the people. It's hard for me to see that violence leads to long-term peace, however, and that was my trouble with the first post, besides how it was worded in parts. But, you've clarified and I see what you/your professor meant by those statements. The "right" thing to do for China to restore real peace would be to give people freedom and have a better human rights record.

I admit I don't know enough about Tienamen Square or China. That's why I'm very interested. I'd love to hear more from windandsea if possible.

http://www.worldpress.org/americas/0302mexico.htm

 

Thank you for your concerns, but there's no need to worry about what I've posted here. What I posted is common knowledge in China, and I am simply not significant enough to be executed and cause a nationwide debate on communism vs. capitalism. Nor is there anyone during peacetime after the cutural revolution being executed simply by voicing their opinions in China.

As a HongKongese, I get information from both sides, so don't go tell me that I am blinded by the Chinese government propaganda.

Things are changing at an amazing pace in China. Here is something to chew on to better understand the civilian vs government relationship.

First of all, if you are involved in a law suit in China, and you are not satified with the result. As it is in USA, appealing to a higher court is feasible, and the higher court overruling the local court's sentence is not unusual. During my short stay in mainland China, I've seen CCTV reported two counts of such matters in their TV programs

Second of all, sueing governmental agency for their mischief is possible. Two famous comedians in China, Chen Pei Zi and Zhu Shi Mao, sued CCTV, the central TV station of China, which is a strictly state owned and the biggest government propaganda machine, for illegal usage of their images. They won and got compensation at about 40000 us dollars. The side effect? they are not invited to CCTV held activities anymore, big deal.

Yeah we can't elect, can't do name calling to the leaders, can't march and protest without permission, but there is legal space for us to go against government in China. Seriously, the Chinese I know are simply not interested in the above so called human rights. They are content earning their fair share and improve the quality of their lives. The most important thing is, most Chinese are content with the current political infrastructure, because they deem economic developement as the first priority, everything else needs to stand aside.

Right now dictatorship in China is the platform for everything to operate on, not the bottleneck. If it's not broken, why fix it? Things will change until the current political structure becomes the bottleneck for China, but I don't forsee that in the near future. IMO China will follow the path of Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. First developing the economy, then political reform. Not the other way around.

 

I find it funny that so many of us from the good ol' USofA here are rambling on and on about how crappy the government can be in China when less than 50 years ago we had:

The McCarthy Hearings
Kent State
The Chicago Democratic Convention (1968)
Lynching of black men and women in the south
The bombing of black churches

All of which were, at least in some part, government sanctioned events. Police officers and civic leaders looking the other way when innocent people were murdered because of the color of their skin, soldiers shooting student protesters, senators calling people's committment to America into question...

It isn't like we have cornered the market on enlightenment.

Obviously, there are serious human rights issues with the Chinese government. The imprisonment and execution of political dissidents cannot be ignored, but the US isn't exactly on Amnesty International's top 10 list of best protectors of human rights either. Hell, the UN tossed us off of its Human Rights committee for a year while countries like Sudan, Libya and Cuba remained!

We still have millions of people living without homes and millions more barely able to survive the cost of living. Over 40 million Americans live every day with no healthcare insurance. We aren't perfect and we don't always live up to the ideals we set out for ourselves - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I still think this is the best place on earth to live, but there are several billion others who disagree.

It bears remembering when having these types of exchanges with people from other countries.

 

C'mon Jeff... we're talking forced abortions, state run media, and harvesting the organs of prison inmates.

 

China has been a communistic country but is no more communistic. They've had a planned economy and a controlled market, but that has long since (maby 10 years) started to change towards market economy and a more free capitalistic market.

Though China has more of a market economy now the country hasn't become much more democratic. Like panda says there are happening things in this are also, but I'm afraid that this is slower prcess than changing the economy.(I hope I'm wrong.) Partly because of the international pressure is focused more on the economy. Buissnismen from all over the world don't care if it's a democracy or a dictatorship as long as they can make money there.

 

I wasn't trying to say we should BE communist or like China. I was trying to point out that we spend an awful lot of time derriding China while we often exhibit similar problems.

I'm saying that you probably wouldn't like it if people from other countries came in here and bashed the US. It probably stands to reason that bashing China, particularly when the vast majority of us know VERY little about how the people there actually live, is a bit arrogant.

 

The United States has had a horrible human rights record in a lot of ways. It still does, today, in some aspects. We've come a long way, however, and many changes are still necessary.

Many of us here want to take advantage of the opportunity we have on the internet to learn about what changes are occuring in China, what has happened in the past and what life is currently like there. For those of us who have never been to China, most of the information we have comes from the media and the picture they paint. I'd like to know the truth, but I don't know if it's hard for them to tell us what they don't like about living in China. In the United States, that is the kind of dialogue that forces change.

For Rockets fans, being on the verge of welcoming Yao Ming to Houston, Texas, it is a unique chance to exchange knowledge and understanding with a different culture. I think a lot of good will come out of this new relationship and THAT is one of the most exciting things about Yao Ming playing basketball in H-town.

I look forward to more American/Chinese cultural exchanges here on cc.net, maybe under a different thread title . That is exactly what is going on in Beijing and Shanghai right now. Thanks Rudy T. , CD and others- hope you have an exciting and educational trip to the Orient!!! The Chinese have been gracious in welcoming our Houston Rockets contingent into their community.