As one of the original Yao boosters, I think it's time to point out how unhinged some of the Yaomania on this board has become. I'm seeing a thread in which poster after poster cheers on the idea that the Rockets should spend pick #1 on Yao even if he can't come to the NBA for a couple of years. I'm seeing another thread in which poster after poster says we don't need our own medical evaluation of Yao before spending pick #1 on him. A few days ago there was a thread in which people argued that it's a good thing that Yao's arms are short for his height. This is starting to sound like the dot-com mania of the late '90s. Let's stick to old-fashioned business fundamentals. No sound business plan, no investment. This guy isn't the messiah. We should pick him if he's healthy and can play. But you don't spend pick #1 on a guy who MIGHT show up next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, if his Chinese club decides it feels like it. You don't spend pick #1 on a player whose health you can't directly verify. There's a line of confidence below which the risk of drafting Yao is too high to justify spending the top pick on him. It's his job, and his club's, and China's, to help us cross that line.
Thats why I've been saying he's the biggest risk the team can take at #1. His offensive skills will be good. His defensive skills? Maybe. The biggest question is his health and the Chinese government. I just dont think its worth it and why I've been saying I'm happy the Knicks didn't win the lottery to pick Ming. I think the Rockets might be swayed by the money he would create, but not the actual on court product of Ming.
Will, First of all there is precedence for this in the NBA. The Celtics were willing to wait for Bird, the Spurs on Robinson. Yes the Rockets are taking a risk thet he may never show up. But in all reality, what's the chances of that happening. Both sides have too much to lose for that to happen. The doubters just want to say, hey the Chinese government or Sharks will deliberately screw over the Rockets. Just remember they have more to lose than anyone if Yao does not go to the NBA. If we draft him, We keep his rights. This is not baseball. Yao Ming is not J.D. Drew. You make it sound like he just came back from a season ending injury. Hmm, can we say Lamar Odom?. Doctors did perform many tests in Chicago to address those concerns. I don't know the scope of those tests, but Im sure the Rockets like all clubs had access to them. . If the Rockets do have concerns and if they will not accomodate the Rockets, then that is an important issue that has to be resloved. FRankly, I doubt the Rockets will draft any player at #1 unless they were satisfied he is healthy The whole wingspan issue is overblown. The same comment could be said for the asinine thread 5 days ago that compared Yao to a 6'8" player. Of course that's ridiculous. The reason I bring that up is there are comments on both sides that are either meaningless or just plain stupid. What I find interesting is that it's such a clear line between the Pro-Ming group and the ANti-Ming group. Will, based on the points you have chosen to accentuate, it's clear which camp you belong in. I personally believe that we should leave the decision up to CD and Rudy T. And since theyre in the Pro-Ming camp for the moment, so am I.
The NBA has put him through rigorous tests. It's not like his medical conditions are unknown. Any player can get hurt, yet that doesn't stop teams from taking players at the top of the draft who have suffered major injuries; look at Kenyon Martin in 2000. If he has any sort of skills, at his height and size he will make a very noticable impact. None of the other players at his height had the sort of offensive game he does - the only one who was terribly effective was Bol, and he was merely a shot blocker. Given his height and performance, it's safe to say that while he may take a couple of years to come into his own - just like for any other rookie - Yao Ming will make a big impact in the NBA. And I would like to add upon Will's post in another manner - regarding those against Ming. I have seen some of the worst, most overused excuses why the Rockets should NOT draft Ming, including for pure cultural reasons. Judge the guy on his skills, not his heritage. He comes with risk, yes. Is it being overblown in some respects? Probably.
I have seen enough of Wills posts stating the need for more D and ball movement to know that Will is not anti-Ming but pro-good business technique. Re-read the part about "No sound business plan, no investment".
The Bird-Celtics, Robinson-Spurs aren't really related to this. The Celtics waited for Bird in college, and the Spurs knew exactly how long they were waiting for Robinson. A more apt comparison is Arvydas Sabonis-do you think he'd have gone late first round if he was able to go straight to the US? Or, more recently a guy like Jake Tsakalidis-he went from lotto to mid 20s because clubs thought he wouldn't be able to play in the NBA for several more years (turned out it was all a scam by Jerry Colangelo). This argument about Odom is getting senseless. Any time anyone brings up the possibility of injuries to a guy 7'6'', nearly 300 pounds, some people immediately point to others. Odom missed 12 games between his first 2 seasons, as a lanky 6'10'' kid, age 20 and the best player on his team. Weren't 5 of those 12 due to suspension? 7 games over 2 seasons is hardly injury prone. I'm tired of defending Odom because people are bashing him because he's the most likely candidate to be acquired if we don't pick Ming. Anyhow, you get the opportunity for a full physical if a trade were to occur. That's the problem. There IS NOT a clear "Pro-Ming" "Anti-Ming". Some people are making it seem that way-it's not the case. I am not going to go into clinical depression if the Rockets don't end up with Ming. I don't like the great deal of mystery surrounding things such as his health, his agent, his obligations etc., and think you could get equal, probably greater talent and value via trade. As for the last point, I didn't know Rudy and CD wanted my input, nor did I know I should let them shape my opinions for me.
Wait, are we forgetting 2001-2002? I find it ironic that many people who pan Ming about potential injuries are the same ones who are proposing to trade for a player that only played 29 games last year, mostly due to a wrist injury. I hardly call playing 2 - 76 game seasons and 29 games last year as an iron man. If the argument is Ming may get injured, then its fair game to look at what we're getting in return. It's especially fair given that Odom has suffered a season ending basketball injury while Ming has not (as far as we know and what was reported at the Chicago examination). Oncfe again, I doubt Rudy and CD will take a player with the #1 pick unless theyre 100% satisfied with his health. Secondly, the wing span issue is overblown. Will mentioned how ridiculous it was people were praising a shortened wingspan. I simply brought up how stupid it was for people to say a 7'5" player has the same wingspan as a 6'8" player, especially considering he can touch the rim without jumping. Lastly as far as Rudy T and CD. I defer to them not because they should formulate all my arguments. I defer to them because they have better insight than I do. The same insight into the injury situation and his physical at the Chicago camp. Frankly it is a Pro-Ming and Anti-Ming sentiment. Whether Will is in the Anti-Ming camp, I should not have assumed such and I apologize if I was wrong. However, the simple fact is nobody on this BBS know more about Ming's situation than CD, Rudy, Krause, the Knicks, etc... And if they're saying he is healthy and has the talent, we should defer to them until we see for ourselves. For excample, we know Tracy McGrady is better than Shawn Kemp because we have seen it for ourselves. Can we say the same about Ming? No. We have no clue what's going to happen. Since we dont have first hand experience, maybe we should defer to those that have seen him in person and who are paid to do so. Is that unreasonable? Does that mean they will definitely be right? WHo knows. However, any criticsm should be directed when everyone has an informed opinion and not wild speculation that is not fact based. Right now, they have more facts than we do.
Wrist injuries tend to be freak injuries, and not a sign of being injury prone. I'd consider lower body (mainly knees, ankles, some feet or stress fractures in the legs) and back injuries the type that can be reoccuring. Can wrist injuries reoccur? Yes, but not nearly as likely as lower body/back injuries simply because athletes put a much greater pounding on that part of the body. Especially for a guy with Yao's size. Compare Shaq's explosiveness now to about 3-4 years ago; the extra weight caught up to him. And when a guy has two fairly injury free seasons, with 1 bad injury season, he's he's not injury prone- MJ played a little more than 15 games his 2nd year. As I said before, you'd be able to check out if Odom is damaged goods because trades can be rescinded if a player doesn't pass a physical. "what we're getting in return?" Odom is speculation based on reports from guys like Vescey, Sam Smith, and David Aldridge, and Cuttino Mobley (who says he was also speaking for Steve Francis). When people respond about Odom, then the conversation digs deeper in that direction. I have never limited to "trade Yao Ming for Odom plus picks"- Odom is simply a plausible possibility according to some "experts". He's the type of talent we should look at in return. Have I or anyone else in this thread ever mentioned his wingspan as a problem? Will mentioned people calling his smallish wingpsan a benefit...which is about equal to someone saying Odom's apparent mar1juana habits are a benefit, because it keeps him calm during the games. If you went back to LEWIS LLOYD's thread (I think it was deleted), you'd notice that I was the person that gave his actual wingspan. You already made your point about people being ridiculous on Ming's wingpsan. He has a 7'4'' 3/4; it's not an issue, and is not the topic of discussion. Why bring it up again? And since when could he touch the rim without jumping? That's propoganda. He has a vertical reach of 9'7''- I sincerely doubt even on his tippy toes he's got another 5 inches, unless he can stand on his toes like a ballerina. When have they said he's healthy? From the Chronicle-Although recent X-rays show no trace of the damage, such a history scares the dickens out of the Rockets' orthopedist, Dr. Walt Lowe, who admits he would feel more comfortable signing off on Yao if he could give him a thorough once-over. ..But such an examination doesn't appear to be possible. Should Lowe defer to the NBA doctors, who are more than likely inferior to him?
If Ming can cook so can you. Start counting your championship banners Rocket fans. But in all seriousness, Will is making the most sense. This is a critical basketball decision. If China won't let Ming play for the Rockets, I think that the Rockets better work with David Stern to ban any other team from obtaining Ming. This is the New NBA, where the owners run the league not the players. It's Ming going to the Rockets number one or Ming being banned from NBA competition for life. Ming can have is hall of fame career in Europe, where he can show he isn't even playing against the best European competition. No Dirk, Stojakovich, Turcalgoo, Divac, etc.
Let me ask a question of some one who watches or followed the Chinease Basketball league. Were Ming and ZhiZhi (I wish to apologize to all for my spelling in english, much less proper names or a foriegn language) considered substantially equal? Unless Ming absolutely humiliated ZhiZhi every time down the court, there is not a big enough gap.
When they last played against each other, Wang was 23 and Yao 20. Therefore, Wang was likely further along in his development. I don't completely disagree, but experience could have been a factor.
watched about three seasons worth. wang outplayed him first two. why? yao ming usually didn't guard wang. wang could score at will on the other players. wang can play, in dallas he couldn't (he's better than he seemed there) yao ming didn't start off on basketball, and developed quickly. people are quoting his awesome ft% but he didn't have that until a season ago (check his stats). in fact, his entire game didn't start dominating wang zhizhi's until a season ago.
We take the best trade offer for him or Williams. I'm excited about Yao. But I don't care how big a car you're selling me: If you won't let me test-drive it and won't give me a receipt, I'm not buying.
what a great way to put it!! ultimately i don't know if Ming is the next great player the league will see....he may be....but then again, Caron Butler might be. or stoudamire...anyone of these players in the draft come with risks...but Ming brings with him a whole new set of risks. minimizing these typical draft risks is why the rockets spend a ton of money on good doctors and good scouts.
just think that the rockets will be adding Odom , and Ming..... Talk about taking the cake.. Go Rockets!!
Short arms are easier to control than long arms which equals better coordination. Whether the importance of this enhanced coordination outweighs the extra couple of inches of blocking/rebounding reach is debatable. It's a legit point.
