tmac and cook for allen. tmac can finally play with paul pierce and kg (instant championship ) and allen will thrive in adelmans system. he can make 3s consistently, handle the ball well, pass well, and can drive to the basket. wat he lacks in D he makes up for everywhere else. hes exactly the player we need. do it morey. make it happen.
One thing about Ray Allen is that he's really taken Rajon Rondo under his wing. Last year he would be tutoring Rondo after lots of plays on what was the right pass. Of course Rondo is a natural point with great passing vision, but I'm sure some of Ray's wisdom could rub off on Aaron brooks.
If the Rockets won't pay Artest what he asks, why would the Celtics? There are only 3 teams with cap room this offseason, Detroit (scene of the riot), OKC, and Memphis. The other 2 teams are currently perennial losers, why would Ron go there? Plus, I doubt they are looking to pay him 10 million per year either. We have Ron by the balls.
$37 million over 4 yrs with annual max raises (10.5%) is a contract starting at $8 million. Artest considers this amount under market value. The League's hypothetical 2009-10 luxury tax figure is $69.4M NBA Salaries: http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp Then add low-cost signings to round out the roster... Brad Newley (drafted/rookie min: $457,588) Matt Nielsen (Pamesa Valencia/est. $800k) Pablo Prigioni (TAU/est. $1.1M)
Note: this post is rather unrelated, but ties in at the end of a LONG argument... I just can't create threads yet, sorry. _______________________________________________ Ok, so I have a trade idea (something I don't often have one of) and posted this to a couple friends with a few caveats/assumptions: 1. I do not think the Celtics can be good enough next year to have a good chance at winning the championship and that they will probably have some more injury troubles en route to that. 2. I do not think this trade is likely to happen due to the fact that large salaries are RARELY moved AND it requires both teams to be proactive, something that rarely happens in the NBA 3. Few viable trade options are available regarding either player, as their contracts are so large, and as such, I have not checked other scenarios for Boston to see if they could get a better (realistic) package. 4. This is NOT a basketball move for Boston, it's a finance and roster management/planning move. 5. This is NOT a next-year trade for Boston. It would NOT pay immediate dividends other than to save them ~30m in salary after next year. Those should begin to show in 1-3 years, within the timespan of Garnett's contract, assuming good moves were made with the financial space acquired 6. Contrary to the perception that I'm sure will permeate this thread if it gets responses, this is NOT a risk-free trade for Houston I'm interested strictly in whether this trade works to the manners in which I've outlined it, technically, and if it does in fact make sense, given the above assumptions, or if I'm just completely wacky. Boston's board thought I was completely wacky, but I really expected them to, so that's not discouraging to me. There is a summary at end of the post. Important Portions: __________________________________ McGrady for Garnett http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5079955 For Boston: Boston's already had their championship run, and with KG and Allen on the definitive downhill, they will cut salary after next year for a quick rebuild on the fly around Rondo/Pierce with TMac as an interlude option next year. Not only that, but if they let Mac expire after next year, they'll be looking VERY nice for the 2010 offseason, when Allen also comes off the books (currently looking at a mere 26 mil). Boston seems to realize they need frontcourt help, which would indicate that they already realize (whether actively or passively) that KG isn't going to get it done anymore - they're on the frontside of a quantity/quality dilemma. They have also realized that they're not going to get the kind of returns from a Ray Allen trade that they need to contend, that none of their other assets are overly tradable, that they're rtreading on the luxury tax and that the MLE probably won't cut it for what they need. Trading KG makes more sense than trading Pierce because of KG being older than Pierce, having a longer contract, being less of a Boston icon, and being less likely to be as serviceable for the duration of his contract. Boston should acquire McGrady with NO expectations of productivity, looking at this deal from strictly a financial standpoint. Anything that comes from him should be considered a bonus. Ray Allen 6-5 205 07/20/1975 12 Years - 34 to start next season Kevin Garnett 6-11 253 05/19/1976 13 Years - 33 to start next season Paul Pierce 6-7 235 10/13/1977 10 Years - 32 to start next season When the Rockets tried to keep Hakeem, Barkley, and Drexler, all to the very bitter, bitter end, they ran into the same thing that is likely to hit Boston next year. Boston could go another year - 35/34/33 - KG starts breaking down faster from old-age overuse, becomes untradeable for 2 more years as his production eventually drops to ~11ppg/6rpg/23mpg (he's already only doing 16/8.5/2.5/1/1 in 31). He's still good, but his production is dropping fast, and it'll get BAD if he's overused, and the Celtics will get bad if they don't overuse him. That's a bad mix, total no-win situation. If McGrady can recover, this trade lets them look forward without completely abandoning the present. If he can't, they at least set themselves up nicely for a year from now. Like Shaq in Miami, KG/Allen was a 2/3-year window trade. There's no reason to go into that 3rd year when you know it can't work. Miami did. Houston did. They both got burned, bad. The Celtics, in a year or so, will have to shift to being Rondo's team. The wiretap earlier emphasized that they know that. This trade is just proactive instead of reactive, with both teams getting several benefits. Boston would irk their fan base with this trade next year, no doubt. They're going to be irked anyway, as I'd be shocked if Boston was an elite team next year. Build for the smart run. I see at least one major injury or reduction in production forthcoming for them on the current roster, with few players who seem able to step up and fill the void. The ones on their roster that could have, have already done so. Likely to the best degree possible for them - thus their production is actually more likely to decrease with more ability able to be afforded them from the other declines. For Houston: KG's already looking bad with the knee injury at 33, he has a LONG contract (3 more years) that doesn't release him until he's 36, and will continue to get worse with 1055 games under his belt. Playing as a primary frontcourt option in Boston will hurry that, but playing for the Rockets in a frontcourt rotation with Scola and Ming may well help limit BOTH Yao's and KG's injuries by halving their minutes, while preemptively helping to prolong Scola's career to his mid-30s. Houston reduces salary for next year by a good bit, potentially putting them under the tax (almost 8 million reduction from McGrady to KG next year in compensation for the extra risk, while Boston loses the risk of his next two years, which are almost 40m in total - so next year the Rockets would gain perhaps as much as 11-13m total after considering luxtax penalties and bonuses). With Yao, Scola, KG, Landry manning the middle, none of them should have to play over 25-30 mpg, which is a MAJOR boon for them. Past that, KG at PF alongside Yao would be murder for the rest of the league next year (more questionably after that). KG's skillset is the absolute perfect compliment to Yao in that he is money from 18 ft, still a very good shot blocker/help defender, and still a good rebounder. These factors would depreciate during 2010-2012. If KG can play, and can continue to play, the immediate reasons Houston does this trade are blatantly obvious. There is more risk there than would be assumed, however, as Houston would likely get stuck with an aged KG over at least the last year of his contract, functionally (but probably not contractually) ending their current roster era were they to not succeed within a year or two. Against: Both players are injured, and coming off surgery, and thus both teams acquire a good deal of risk, the Rockets more than Boston, in my opinion. In the standard arc of athletic big men, KG is due to decline, has actually already started to (for the last 3 seasons, actually), and unlike McGrady's expiring, his contract will remain at a high level well after next year. Boston and Ainge both stand to take a considerable PR hit in the short term, Ainge more than Boston. Boston, however, would not have to go through an ugly contract-captivity-induced rebuilding phase in 3 years. By making this move, which I see as a great move for the Celtics long-term, Ainge personally takes on a ton of ill will professionally that he may not be able to elude - perhaps even if the move works. By not making it, he doesn't. Why would he not play it safe? (which is why this is listed as one of my assumptions / things to not consider in critiquing this trade) The Rockets would probably not be able to have Artest and KG in the same locker room. It's highly doubtful Boston would trade such a big cog in their 1-yr removed championship team, especially having been just 1 gm away from the ECF again without KG so the chances of them rebuilding next year is about zero. Where the Celtics are at, you can piddle out like 94-98 Houston, 06 Miami, and 06 Detroit, or you can be proactive. Their fans on the board want to piddle out, and I don't blame them, having been the same way in the past myself. You can't blame their management, who are beholden to avoiding the fan backlash. Past that, do the finance and team planning aspects work for both teams? Summary: Boston: - Cuts ~30m over 3 years while KG's contract is still moveable - Frees up the ability to make drastic roster moves next year. LeBron|Wade|Bosh/Pierce/Rondo/Powe, anyone? LeBron's already stolen KG's dramatic powder move... - Gets a potential player to fill in this year - Has to deal with fan backlash - Doesn't have to deal with players aging and a long-term rebuilding project in 2-3 years. - Accelerates Rondo's career Houston: - Cuts 8m this year, but acquires 40m the two years afterward that will not be tradeable - Hopes KG can stay healthy and not drop off at too steep a pace at ages 35 and 36 - Shoots primarily for next year, with large question marks thereafter - Hopes to extend the careers of all three main frontcourt players through reduced minutes - Gets a player who fits very nicely into their system, and another leader. May well have problems keeping Artest if they pull this move. WITH REGARD TO ARTEST: This would still leave us with an issue at SG, but with Scola/KG / Yao/KG / KG/Scola in the middle, and Landry/Hayes off the bench, we could skimp with a cheaper SG, as our post play would attract a TON of attention. It's possible Artest might even work properly for us under this setup, if he and KG didn't kill each other with aluminum baseball bats in the parking lot after game 28. Raja Bell might fit the bill via S&T or as a 3-team trade piece if his defense hasn't dropped off too badly (I heard mixed reports last year). We could give Artest in that deal, giving the Bobcats a better marketing ploy, Artest a better contract than we're likely to give him, as we don't HAVE to, and us a short-term great 3p shooter who can still cut and run some. Suddenly, we're well under the threshold with budget happy non-chucking SG/SFs who can shoot, pass, and have room to operate. KG has replaced the fiery and slightly psychopathic personality that Artest provided this year. If that's not enough to fix our SG problems, we still have Cook and Barry expiring this year for a total of about 5.7m (+25%, which is now an option since we're under the cap), readily tradeable to a team looking to cut an MLE player to save salary. Raja Bell serves purposes of removal of boneheadedness, salary, and eventual locker-room friction. I didn't do hard math on it, but I think that still leaves us some space to use the MLE if needed. Again, I'm pinning this trade that our strength and hopefully acquired health/longevity at C/PF would offset the relative offensive weakness at SG/SF, AND that Lowry/Wafer/Brooks could step up more as a result of this as well. Also note that the Raja Bell component was more an initial complementary idea to the KG one, as opposed to a secondary part to a main idea. The main idea was McGrady for KG. I do like Raja's fit with us better than Artest if we have KG, but probably not without him due to finances (and other reasons). There are very likely also other options out there. He just came to mind as "3p shooter, good teammate, good defense, can drive, can handle the ball" - basically all the stuff Ron did for us this year. Raja Bell may work as well without the KG trade.
Hamilton's game is similar to Ray's, although Hamilton's 3-pointer shooting is not as sharp. He's moving on the court all the time, so I think he fits RA's system well. I suspect Detroit is going to do something big this summer since current Detroit team really sucks after Billups was gone. If we could land Hamilton or Prince, that would be great.
Indeed they would, particularly Prince, but I can't see us landing him. Hamilton's a very outside shot.
U can keep ray-ray. I've seen him get abused by wally last yr and struggle with jj. He used to be a scorer, now he's just a shooter. You don't like dealing with the opposition, but s&t with the lakers for odom at 9m for 3yrs.Odom can do a lot for this team. Odom is a natural ball handler and oversized 3/4 guy. The rox can start odom at the 3 and basically have him play point forward. He's a really good rebounder and very long. A move like that will free brooks from some of the playmaking responsibilties.
Money Ball represents similar results for less money. That's the blueprint that should be considered whenever potential trades or free agent signings are discussed. Another Morey trend has been getting the team younger, quicker, and more athletic. When you take all these things into account, it's pretty obvious that many of these scenarios have little chance of happening.
ray allen would be a perfect player in adelman's system. the thing is as we saw in this year's playoffs: if he can't make his shot, he's worthless or last year's playoffs.
This is a great idea, i would love a steve nash, ray allen back court if we can somehow trade for nash, and sign and trade artest for ray allen.
Yeah this makes sense for Boston. They win a championship with the Big 3, were dominating until the biggest of the 3 went down, and still nearly made conference finals. So what do they do? They trade for a guy that likely won't fit well in their system, is a leader that they don't need, and will likely ruin there let the play speak for its self style. Oh and don't forget it would like ruin the great chemistry that team has built, not to mention the trust the team has for the management. They made the trades for the big 3 to win a championship or two. They win one in year one and were a top contender in year two but management decides to essentially spit on that and trade Allen. Look I like Ron and think he fits for our team. But this trade idea is just stupid. There is a 0% chance Boston does it and getting Ron to do a sign in trade is highly unlikely as well. If we are going to have trade ideas lets at least make them logical.
(At least I see what the people who aren't responding to that are thinking though, and had a decent idea that was it anyway. Thanks)
great. so who's your go to wing-guy if (mostly likely WHEN) yao goes down? jefferson? the dude cant carry a team if his life depended on it. and why would you want lee when you get scola? landry is a better alternate for scola. anyway, i absolutely love ray allen. he's the perfect fit. we may lose a nice defender in ron, but this year, ron wasnt really great defensively. we still have battier to guard the team's better perimeter defender. ron was only good for spot up 3s and im sure ray would be much better there. s&t ron for ray. trade tmac for nash. keep lowry. you have lowry to attack the basket if yao's on the court and you have nash for the run and gun with landry and scola. ray would be perfect for any of those offensive sets. he can run and he can play half court.
