we keep both artest and battier, and trade mac for some pieces to build around the core group. yao scola battier artest lowry landry mac, ab = nash, barbosa looking good right. nash is 35, but still can play. he's got another 2-3 seasons in him. barbosa is streaky, but can score with the best of them. would love him as a six man.
Tonight was a perfect example of what i posted earlier. The supprting cast didnt really show, so Kobe has to shoot more and try to score big, finished with 40, shot 13 of 28.....if Melo could have held him to his average or under 50% shooting, the Nuggets win..
I guess being dominant in one and above average in the other is a better way to put it. But I disagree with the trade aspect. We have a number of players on our team who improve our defensive efficiency, but we only have a few players who actually improve our offensive efficiency and most of them are too inconsistent for us to move into the above average category. Having great one-on-one defenders is a luxury but team defense is most important, and if you have good players with high basketball IQ's even if they are not. Most of these championship teams have one or two main defensive influences (Garnett + Rondo, Duncan + Bowen, Mourning, Shaq in his prime + Harper) and the other major players were offensive players who would learned to play good team defense, but their defensive ability was questioned before they showed it playing during their championship runs (Allen + Pierce, Ginobli, Walker, young Kobe) or had very players who could play good team defense in system (Finley + Horry, Haslem + old Payton, Fisher + George + Horry + Grant). Pistons are sort of a an exception to the rule. What I'm saying is that we have to improve our offensive efficiency which means we need better offensive players. Too many of our players are too inconsistent. Other than Yao & Scola, who else can you expect to go out and score 10+ points a game on 40% shooting or better every game or even 2/3 games right now? Even if you say we need the whole team healthy and to get grow together, I'm not sure I see that happening. I'm not saying we have to trade Battier or Artest or whomever. I love the players on this team. I just don't see us with a real shot at a championship until we improve on our offensive efficiency, and we will have to do that with trades because there are not too many options available in free agency to do that. As to the "suspect team defense," I feel that team defense is due to not having to think about where your team mate is, when they will help, how fast they can get there, etc. which is why we got better when we had a set lineup at the end of the season. However, while we were better offensively, I don't feel we were improved our offensive efficiency enough even with that stability.
Everyone appreciates what Shane brings to the table, but we need more points from his position. In fact, I'd be curious as to where the Rocket's front line ranks in points per game.
http://www.82games.com/0809/BYPOSIT.HTM Battier is (nominally) a SF. We're 12th in PPG from the SF spot, and 4th best at limiting PPG at that spot. Net ranking is 9th. <hr> My mistake. Battier is considered a SG in lineups where he shares the court with Artest and two bigs (which accounted for about half his total minutes this past season). Our Net PPG at the SG position only ranked 25th out of 30 teams.
Battier would start on every team in league at either the 2 or the 3. This thread is a crying shame because people don't understand what Battier brings to the team. FFS, the OP didn't even say he needed to be included in a specific trade to land a specific player, just that he needed to be gone. Thinking like this is the quickest way to completely destroy a team.
We did have the option to go with more scoring at that position this year. Von Wafer was that guy. Bottomline, Adelman chose Battier more often than not, presumably because he thinks it gives the team the best chance at winning. Battier generally had a positive impact on the offense, too, just by not being a ball-stopper, running the offense smartly, and being able to hit some open shots. I am not sure if a Ron/Von line up (or a Ron/McGrady lineup) did better offensively than a Battier/Ron or Battier/Von lineup. My impression is no, but would like to see the numbers.
*unwarranted personal attacks*His role on the team is to play great defense on Kobe or other teams good perimeter players. Do you rather have a one demensional scorer than battier? Battier brings more than a lot of people think. He is our leader. He plays hard and is a great defender. With him and Artest playing side by side, Brandon Roy will have nightmares for years to come. Just because he don't score like Kobe or Wade does not mean that he is unvaluable. I just think you're unvaluable and just watch the stats instead of the game.
i don't think we'll pick up anyone who is going to make that much of a difference unless we trade mac and his expiring contract, it's great timing because of the crap economy, all teams are trying to save money. we get rid of mac and (brooks or landry) for 2-3 good pieces that will improve our team.
basically, we've got the 9th best 3's in the league as far as stats show, what it doesn't show is the leadership and the basketball iq. he's an intelligent player and makes the right plays when needed. what he lacks in athletism he makes up in intelligence. he's the leader of this team, all players respect his game because they either can't, or don't use up the energy to do so. we need to get rid of mac, not battier. i loved mac the first couple of years he was here, but it's obvious he's not the guy who's going to win us a championship, much less a 1st round.
A player like Battier is hard to part with. He is the glue that keeps this team in together. I believe that he is the true leader of the team. Yao and T Mac are superstars but they are not players who takes charge in keeping the team focused.
Wow. I'm speechless. An unimaginable new apex for the Battier jock-riders. I'm sure Bruce Bowen in his prime was more valuable than Duncan, Parker and Ginobili.
Steve too fast for yao Steve could get shaq movin Yao's more stiff I think If we just keep the same team well do great imagine tracy and Brooks together with yao and scola also battier and artest.... well have to get rid of barry for barbosa get a good tall back up center and were lookin at the 2010 Championship Yao/ (someone tall and big and Strong) Tracy/ Barbosa or Chris Bosh or Josh Smith Brooks/ Lowry scola/hayes/landry battier/Artest Wafer got to go Also barry we talk as if he would change us he did nothing we need some who can dunk on people like its nothing like josh smith Morey Read this
shane's "production" comes from the defensive side of the court, we're not paying him 6, 7 mil to avg 10, 15 pt a game... shane is the heart and soul of this team because we preach defense, and he's still one of the best in the biz as far as 1 on 1 defender. Why do you think bowen's still with the spurs?? The guy's a lot more over the hill than shane offensively AND defensively, but he's still around cause his D is still above avg. i dont see the rockets moving shane and they'd love to continue to have both shane and ron. As far as who's starting, that might depend on tmac's progress. Besides, u're a bit harsh on shane and singling him out, knowing his offensive skill is minimal and inconsistent. By da way, you know he outscored kobe in game 4, right.. or was it game 6.
I think you didn't understand Battier's role. You even don't know his value. Just Watch Yesterday's game LA vs Denver and look how Kobe Bryant was playing!! and how the score was at the end!! Battier's role is like Rodman for the bulls. Who ever criticized Rodman for his nowhere offense?!!! that man was shooting the ball as if he didn't play basket ball ever!! Battier is the HEART OF HOUSTON'S DEFENSE! that is what you have to understand. and as JVG said :" there is no better way to defend KB24 without fouling like what Battier did". Moerover, Battier is the one who kept the team motivated in the locker room and on the floor, he's a WARRIOR. You cannot win a championship without having tough defenders in this position, as long as we have dangerous players such as KB24 and LJ. Look at the Cleveland Houston game: Lebron James couldn't do anything in front of Battier's defense, and Ron. I do believe if we had passed to the WCF, we'd beat Denver and move to the finals, and neither Boston nor Orlando nor Cleveland can beat our tough defense, especially having both Battier and Artest. Our weak in center position, and missing a great scorer was the problem agaisnt LA. Conclusion: Battier is the masterpiece of our way of playing after Yao, and don't forget: Offense wins games, but DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
I just want a couple of answers to see if this whole battier is the greatest role player thing adds up. Some may not see this as linear, but i'll give it anyway. Kobe drop 30 and shane drps 6, is that better than kobe dropping 35 but the imaginary other guy drps 17? I mean, kobe is going to get his anyway, but is kobe more dangerous if he's working on defense or resting on defense?
