How long have you been watching the NBA? Caron Butler and Lamar Odom were considered cornerstones of the Heat when that trade happened. Everyone thought Miami was an up and coming team with the core of Wade, Butler, and Odom. Go back and read articles about when the trade happened if you don't believe me. The Heat gave up TWO young players including one that everyone thought was going to be an all-star type player (Butler) PLUS a first round draft pick to get Shaq. Why? Because they knew that if you have a chance to win now, you don't pass that up because it could be another decade before you get that chance again.
like carrying his team almost singlehandedly into the ecf? something ron wasn't nearly able to do, being the 2nd or 3rd man with reggie?
1.) Healthy Rockets team has barely ever exist and those other years all we had was Yao and Tmac...not Brooks, Landry, Scola, etc. 2.) He's a elite player for how long? 3.) No one said that Brooks can be as good as Parker, but the point is just because he's a score first PG doesn't mean he's not good enough. 4.) The 2008 Celtics were coming off a HORRIBLE year and had nothing to lose. Their original plan was to get Oden or Durant...remember everyone suspected them of tanking games? That didn't happen so they made the deal for Allen...which then they could convince Garnett of coming to Boston, a place he originally DIdn't want to go but since they had 2 other all-stars he agreed. 5.) Bynum was the reason the Lakers were a elite team last year, everyone are quick to forget his season he had before he got hurt. Lakers wouldn't be where they are if they had Kidd instead of Bynum. Yes lets just close the book on Bynum already, he's having a bad postseason, nevermind it's his first go round and he's playing on a bad knee.
And winning DPOY and it's funny because Reggie Miller says Ron was the best player on those teams... In fact Reggie said had Ron kept his head on his shoulders he really felt they were championship caliber.
i share some of your high regards on kidd, actually. to me, kidd's uniqueness is his rebounding as a pg. but in dallas' case, with devin harris, they got eliminated by gsw in the first round, with kidd they at least were in the 2nd round. and harris's team wasn't in the playoffs in the east.
That's still a horrible match against the Lakers. There's no consistent scoring from anyone (especially if Yao is fronted), and there's a size disadvantage at the 4 (where you don't want it against L.A.). Am I the only one that saw this year's playoff series?
Nash CAN'T play defense. He CAN'T, the Suns have tried this already this season. It didn't work. I'd pick Nash over Kidd also but that isn't the point I was making. The point was Dallas did this same trade and it didn't work and blew up in their face so bad Nets fans were chanting "Thank You Cuban!" earlier this year. My point is someone was mentioning Nash's team success...so I can't name Kidd taking his team to the finals? Also Yao isn't Shaq, Yao has never been incredibly athletic like Shaq has. Shaq can run up and down the floor, Yao has proven he can't do that. Every time Brooks and Lowry go outta control and leave Yao in the dust the other team goes on runs.
too bad reggie won't be the only one voting when it comes to hof, if he even has the qualification to vote. and i only remember reggie said it on tnt that ron truly BELIEVES he's the best player in the league.
Nobody said Brooks is bad because he is a scoring point guard. It's one thing to be able to score AND be a playmaker AND make good decisions with the ball, which is what Tony Parker is. It's another thing to only be able to score, which is what Aaron Brooks is. And nobody is saying Nash is going to be great for years to come. The point is that he is great NOW and with the way the Rockets team is assembled, they have to win NOW before their main players are out of their prime. Nobody cares about what Nash will be doing in 3 years because by then the Rockets will have either blown up the team already, made major trades to get a new star in, or won't be very good. This roster is designed to win right now, not in 3 or 4 years which is when Aaron Brooks will reach whatever his potential is.
You're really started to sound delusional with some of these things you're saying... Paul Pierce has been elite for a long time. Maybe you just didn't notice that he is an 7 time All-Star. Five of those trips were pre-Allen/Garnett. Artest went 1 time. Pierce has better career shooting numbers across the board, more assists per game, more rebounds per game, more blocks per game, and far more points per game. In fact he has 5 seasons where he averaged above Ron's career high. Ron is a better defender, but nowhere near the offensive player. Simply put, Ron is/was a star and Paul Pierce is/was an All-Star/Superstar.
Dallas just didn't match up with GSW though, I think they overreacted also...Avery had Devin Harris on a leash and that probably limited Dallas view on Harris and they could never see his potential because they never let him go. Kidd has helped the Mavs, but it hasn't put them over the top because of his age. He's not the same Kidd he was and Dallas's talent hasn't changed. They still have all the core players from their finals trip instead they upgraded their PG spot. But Now they have aging players in Josh, Kidd, and Dirk and now have to think about rebuilding or doing another risky trade and keep Dirk around. That's what we risk if we trade young guys like Brooks. There is no guarantee that Brooks will be good, but why risk it so soon? For a one or two year window at a championship? The thing is if we don't get it then it will have been massive failure. I don't believe in blowing up teams after they have improved the previous season. If this was a year ago...Hell yeah, but not after that performance from THIS team without Yao and Mac...nah not risking it. I realize that all it takes is for a healthy team going into the post season for a title. We all know this team when healthy is a contender, more than just 1-2 years. Our core is 30 yrs old, that's a great core, all these guys will be in their prime while Nash is going to decline. That's a sure thing.
Dallas did not get Kidd to magically win an NBA Title. They got eliminated in the first round during Devin Harris' final year and nobody considered them title contenders. They got further this year with Kidd than they did during Harris' last year. Also, if you think Shaq runs up and down the floor, you haven't watched many Suns games. He does that once or twice a game at most and that one highlight usually makes SportsCenter. Doesn't mean he does that the whole game. He barely ever does that. And if you think Aaron Brooks is somehow a better defensive player than Nash, you're basing that on absolutely nothing. Brooks plays on a better defensive team while Nash plays on a team that does not emphasize defense. If you swap them, Nash will look like a better defense player because he is playing with four other guys who are committed to team defense. Why do you think McGrady went from being a terrible defender in Orlando to a starter on one of the top defensive teams in the league when the Rockets were coached by JVG?
and? what about harris failed to do anything in the weaker east? i thought he had more potential (being the #5 pisck overall) than ab...
Everyone just goes by offense nowadays any ways. Not many players go just because of their defense. That is the problem with most teams, they worry about how many points their guys are averaging instead of what they do on the other side of the court. It's only fair to take all of their ability and compare it, Ron is the MUCH better defender. As I said...Reggie has talked Ron Ron up, Ron Ron has helped his teams overacheive. As I said in another thread...I barely if EVER look at numbers, I just watch a TON of games and ignore the numbers.
Shaq in his prime ran up and down the floor with ease. I said Yao was never considered a athletic beast like Shaq was. Not that Shaq still is, but at one point in his career he was just that. I never even mentioned Brooks defense, it's really not better than Nash, I was just saying that it's silly to think Nash can play defense. He hasn't his entire career. People say that trading for Nash means we can win Right NOw...I agree... But this lineup AS IT IS going into next year can win right now also. So why risk it?
usually the last straw after all the failed and beat-up argument, in my experience and observation. lol. (no offense.) hope you were not implying none of us watched enough games.
You just proved my point. The Rockets only have a 1-2 year, MAYBE 3 year window anyway, whether they keep Brooks or not. I guarantee you that in 3 years, we will not have the same core group, regardless of whether we keep Brooks or not. The NBA doesn't work that way. Scola will be a free agent in two years at the age of 32. Battier will be 33 in two years when he is a free agent. Yao can opt out of his contract next season if he wants. Artest will probably be re-signed for no more than 2 or 3 years. If we don't win in the next 2-3 years, we aren't going to win with Yao. The Yao era will then be over. That is why you have to put together the absolute best team you can right now. There is just as much a chance of Brooks never amounting to anything beyond an off the bench player, meaning his trade value is the highest it will ever be right now, as there is him turning into a suitable starting point guard. There is even less a chance that he ever averages 15 ppg/10 assists/50% FG/45% 3s which is what Nash would give you next season. There is just as much negative (low assists, high turnovers, bad decision making) to Brooks' game as positive (quick, good scorer).
What about Harris? The only reason he's in the topic is because what Dallas did is similar to this proposed trade. Only thing is Dallas thought their team was on the decline, while ours is on the rise. Teams don't make big moves like this unless their team is on the decline, that's the logic i'm using. This team took a step forward, and we're so ready to just erase it all for a possible 1-2 year window, a window we already have with the lineup as is?
Nah, actually someone accused me of not watching the games which is hilarious figuring I watch TOO many games that my family won't let me get NBA direct pass. I was just saying...I don't look at stats much which is why i'm usually corrected by them.
